[Ponte Alto] Fwd: RE: Demo and Marshal Activities (Ponte Alto)

Tue May 3 12:22:41 PDT 2005

Caitlin,

I had thought the ruling earlier this year said that for any marshall 
demonstration at a school, all the students & teachers viewing this need to 
have a waiver signed.

That is where the whole discussion has been based from and why the 
chatelaine was asked the question initially.

Just trying to clarify in my mind.

Thanks!

Katharine
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy Halstead" <chalstead3 at adelphia.net>
To: "The Barony of Ponte Alto" <ponte-alto at atlantia.sca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 3:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Ponte Alto] Fwd: RE: Demo and Marshal Activities (Ponte Alto)

> To clarify one thing that I think may still be confusing people:  Waivers 
> are signed by SCA fighters providing the martial demonstration, not the 
> attendees.  Specifically, according to the waiver FAQ:
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Does everyone at the fighter practice or demo need to sign a waiver?
>
> No. Only those fighters who can't provide proof of signed waiver on file 
> at the SCA Corporate Headquarters need to sign a waiver. See the Waiver 
> FAQs for Participants above for a further discussion on what constitutes 
> proof of signed waiver on file at SCA Corporate Headquarters.
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> Based on this, my interpretation would be that demonstrating Fiore, 
> because it falls under the disciplines of the Earl Marshal, requires 
> waivers pursuant to the waiver policy.  In other words, Scott and his demo 
> partner need to sign waivers if they don't have blue membership cards, 
> just like any other fighter involved in the demo.  No waivers get signed 
> by the kids who are going to be watching the Fiore demonstration, and none 
> of them are directly participating in it since that's already not allowed 
> under the rules.
>
> I also just saw the other e-mail with a question about whether a marshal 
> is required.  Based on Jarl Timoch's answer, this demo is not considered 
> to be any different from any other fighting demo, and given that I would 
> say that a marshal is required.  I suspect that it would most 
> appropriately be a heavy marshal, but I cannot state that categorically. 
> Both of those issues should be discussed with the Knight Marshal, and he 
> can clear up any confusion by checking with his superiors.  The 
> marshallate policy I found is this:
>
> 3.1.3.2.2.1   Each marshal related activity conducted at an event must 
> have a MIC-Activity.
>
> 3.1.3.2.2.2   The MIC-Activity must be authorized to marshal that 
> discipline.
>
> Generally, for the purpose of definition, demos are considered activities 
> in the same way that fighter practice is considered an activity.  However, 
> the marshallate rules are not my area of expertise.
>
> Caitlyn
> Donning the seneschallate hat for this one
>
>
>
>
> At 11:54 AM 5/3/2005, Mary Bowles wrote:
>>HI James,
>>
>>No. It is a Marshal Art and therefore falls under the Marshallete's 
>>perview. No matter the Marshal activity the Kingdom Earl Marshall holds 
>>dominion over it.
>>
>>Mary
>>
>>james barker <flonzy at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>I do have one question with all of this. Does demoing Fiore fall under the
>>marshal at all? It is not one of the SCAs marshal sports/combat styles.
>>Being a researched thing would it not fall under A&S then forgoing the 
>>need
>>for waiver? That was Scott's original question and mine still.
>>
>>If nothing else this will cleat up the issue for the future :D
>>
>>Thanks
>>James
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>----Original Message Follows----
>>From: Mary Bowles
>>Reply-To: The Barony of Ponte Alto
>>To: The Barony of Ponte Alto
>>Subject: [Ponte Alto] Fwd: RE: Demo and Marshal Activities (Ponte Alto)
>>Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 08:20:30 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>Greetings Ponte Alto,
>>
>>I seemed to have misinterpreted what was conveyed to me. The Marshal
>>Activities at Demo is not forbidden. The way in which it was handled in
>>conveying information to Kingdom is where our troubles came in. Marshal
>>activity for Demo's is outlined in the Marshal's handbook. I've attached 
>>the
>>reply I received from Jarl Timoch below, when I requested we be able to do
>>Scott Cozad's demonstration. So that everyone will understand there is a
>>method for applying to the SCA to do Marshal DEMO's and how to go about 
>>it.
>>I am also encouarageing Scott to try doing the Fieor (sp) demonstration at
>>the June Demo because his efforts are appreciated, and because it's an
>>interesting form of Marshal Art.
>>
>>Any questions?
>>
>>YIS,
>>Lady Maria-Therese de Normand
>>Seneschal, Ponte Alto
>>
>>
>>"Prickett, Timothy" wrote:
>>From: "Prickett, Timothy"
>>To: Mary Bowles
>>CC: DuncanCooper at earthlink.net, Master Roland
>>Subject: RE: Demo a nd Marshal Activities (Ponte Alto)
>>Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 10:56:34 -0400
>>
>>
>>Hello Lady Maria,
>>
>>I have CC'd Lord Duncan and Master Roland on this, to help expedite as
>>needed. To answer your question specifically, I do not speak FOR the
>>kingdom Seneschal. Whatever she said goes. She did ask me. If this is an
>>SCA demo then no martial activities may occur outside of what the SCA
>>allows. Your local marshal should be able to show you the rules that
>>specifically cover this. If this is an SCA demo which includes marshallate
>>covered activities, then the usual drill for cards and waivers must be
>>adhered to. Those are the (briefly summed up) rules. I could not download
>>your pictures, so I cannot comment further.
>>
>>
>>
>>Your first, best point of contact is your local marshal. This is the
>>information I currently have on:
>>
>>
>>
>>Knight Marshal
>>
>>
>>
>>Barony of Ponte Alto
>>
>>Mem Expires: 12/31/2005
>>
>>Cooper, Duncan L.(Duncan McClay)
>>1819 Olmstead Drive, Falls Church, VA 22043
>>Tel: 703-903-8876, email: DuncanCooper at earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>>I applaud Scott Cozad for taking the time and energy to try to do a good
>>show for the kids. I hope he can work within the rules, with the Baronial
>>Knight's Marshal to make your demo a success. If your marshal needs my 
>>help
>>or advice, he should know that he can call me or Master Roland and ask.
>>
>>
>>
>>I hope this helps,
>>
>>
>>
>>Jarl Timoch
>>
>>KEM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mary Bowles [mailto:mariatheresapontoon at yahoo.com]
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:59 AM
>>To: earlmarshal at atlantia.sca.org
>>Subject: Demo and Marshal Activities (Ponte Alto)
>>
>>
>>
>>Greetings Jarl Timoch Haakonson (Tim Prickett),
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Recently one of my Barony (Ponte Alto), Scott Cozad, contacted the Kingdom
>>Waiver Secretary to see if he would need waivers to do a Marshal
>>Demonstration at a Demo. Ann was informed and it sent off a red light in 
>>her
>>mind. She contacted you and the Kingdom Chatalaine. The outcome of these
>>communications was that Ponte Alto/SCA could not sponsor a demo with 
>>Marshal
>>Activity that was not an SCA approved Marshal Activity. I hope I've got 
>>this
>>right. Please correct me if I haven't.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>The style of Demo Scott Cozad would like to give in June is one he's done
>>before with a living history group. Below I've attached his idea as he
>>conveyed it to the Ponte Alto list, because I think it is a good idea. I 
>>ask
>>that you reveiw it and either approve or deny the idea. The thought of not
>>having some sort of Marshal demostration at demo's has kicked up an e-mail
>>flurry on my Barony's list. They want it. They think it a integral part of
>>showing and educating the public about the middle ages. Care will be taken
>>in these demo's and children will not come into hazar d. Any questions 
>>please
>>feel free to contact me, and I will get the experts on this subject in
>>contact with you as soon as possible.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Thank you for you time and effort in giving this a review.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>YIS,
>>
>>
>>Lady Maria-Therese de Normand
>>
>>
>>Seneschal, Ponte Alto
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >From Scott Cozad to the Ponte Alto List (ullrmadr at yahoo.com)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>It was my request for clarification that started this
>>so I feel I should say something publicly.
>>
>>What I wanted to do was demonstrate historical combat
>>techniques with the longsword. I had planned on doing
>>this with slow work. By that I mean slow and
>>controlled movements with the wasters. I have been
>>studying these techniques for several years and have
>>done the kind of demo I will outline with living
>>history groups that I am involved with.
>>
>>The idea is to show what historical combat looked like
>>and not what you see in movies. I was going to do
>>this with wooden wasters and work with my demo partner
>>beforehand. I chose the longsword because it is an
>>impressive weapon and it is easier to see what is
>>being done even at a distance.
>>
>>I have pictures from an event that I did a few weeks
>>ago at home. It is very similar to what I had hoped
>>to achieve with the SCA school demos.&nb sp; I will put
>>those pictures online when I get home tonight.
>>
>>My intention in asking about doing this demo was not
>>to stir up a storm. I wanted to dot all my "t's" and
>>cross my "I's". I am saddened by the decision not to
>>be allowed to do this demo.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Scott Cozad
>>Edward de Clare in the SCA.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>And an addendem to my last post. All of what I
>>planned was going to be out of range of the childern.
>>The space available would dictate the distance and if
>>there was not sufficient space the demo would be
>>altered or scrapped.
>>
>>Al so I do not allow childern to handle weapons of any
>>sort. This is a longstanding policy of many of the
>>living history groups I am part of.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Scott Cozad
>>Edward de Clare in the SCA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I have uploaded images taken a few weeks ago at a
>>living history timeline event. This is what I was
>>trying to arrange to do.
>>
>>The images are not in any order but I think this shows
>>pretty much what I had hoped to achive. Some of the
>>images show us using single handed swords and I said I
>>had planned to use only longswords in my demo. I
>>included these to better show more of what I had hoped
>>to show.
>>
>>Here is the url
>>http://photobucket.com/albums/v643/scozad/MTT%20Demo/
>>
>>If you have any questions on what you are seeing
>>please let me know.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Scott Cozad
>>Edward de Clare in the SCA
>>Edward the pell in La Belle Company :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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