[MR] G.o.A. Collars?

[E L Wimett]

Actually, the original question was partially posed as a "can we do collars 
of SSS's or is that reserved to those allowed to use it mundanely" (given 
the particular prominence of that particular piece of regalia).  Wilhelm's 
original ruling was essentially that the mundane usage did not preclude 
Society usage but that those who used it in the Society should be of at 
least equivalent rank to those allowed to use it mundanely.  At that time 
he was making the equation of >AoA as that equivalence.

The later, broader statements rose out of questions as to whether the 
ruling was limited to collars that used the S or applied to all collars of 
estate (e.g., could someone do a collar of laurel wreaths with an Order 
pendant or perhaps a collar with their personal badge and Order pendants. . 
.)  He decided it would be silly to allow an exact copy of mundane regalia 
and not allow a more creative analog.

(If you wonder why I recall this, I had some extensive conversations with 
Bill on exactly this topic in 1982 - 1983 when the issue of some sumptuary 
laws that I thought were in violation of Corpora hit in some of "them thar 
A kingdoms".)

When Bill registered the regalia of the various orders in order to protect 
them formally, it was in conjunction with the Great Armorial and Ordinary 
Project (TM) of which I was a major fomenter.  We noticed that there was no 
place that the major order badges, etc. were protected and Bill corrected 
that in 1982.  However, the focus then was on the long-standing (and 
generally accepted as reserved) badges/regalia for royal peers and ordered 
peers.  I do not recall the issue of collars of any sort coming up in the 
discussion at all.

Through the latter part of Bill's tenure and through Baldwin's, some 
members of the College wore collars (one of the main proponents of these 
presented me a linked belt that he expected/wanted me to use as the basis 
of a "livery collar" to display my awards and was VERY disappointed when I 
used it as a belt!!!).  However, the practice did not catch on generally, 
partly because the collars as generally used tended to go well only with 
male Tudor or male/female houppelandes and partly because they were rather 
expensive.  You still see them today and, practically speaking, most people 
who use them are peers.

However, when I was Laurel, I did NOT consider that they were technically a 
reserved usage any more than I considered the red belt a reserved usage 
since it was not specifically associated with a specific rank or order.  I 
am not sure that any of my successors has specifically ruled on this issue, 
though I equally suspect that nobody has brought the issue of some of the 
more outlandish "sumptuary laws" up as regularly as I used before I was 
Laurel.  (My general feeling is that, apart from the Society-wide regalia 
associated with a PARTICULAR rank or order, any sumptuary laws generated by 
any Crown or kingdom deserve the same fate they had in period: being 
generally ignored unless they were laughed at. . .)

Alisoun

On Wednesday, June 06, 2001 10:28 AM, blaise at scadian.net 
[SMTP:blaise at scadian.net] wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 02:31:53PM +0000, Terry L. Neill wrote:
> > >Actually, regarding Collars of Estate, waaay back (when rocks were 
soft),
> > >Wilhelm von Schlussel was the Laurel King of Arms. He formally stated 
that
> > >Collars of Estate were reserved to those holding arms by Grant or 
Patent.
> > >That reservation is not an Atlantian sumptuary rle, but nominally a 
Society
> > >one.
> >
> >
> > Sigh.
> >
> > My apologies for incorrect information.  I thumbed through a few 
documents
> > before replying; obviously not the right ones!
> >
> > Off to do more thumbing.
>
> It appears to be more confusing than that.  Pedro and I started a cover
> letter dive last night, and found the following:
>
> In August 1980, Wilhelm Laurel declared that holders of Grants and
> Patents were eligible to wear collars of SSS's.  In October 1980, he
> rescinded that based on further information and *proposed* that livery
> collars be allowed to holders of Grants and Patents with each kingdom to
> specify the form that its livery collar would take.  If a kingdom did
> not specify a livery collar, they would not be used.  From November 1980
> to June 1982 and in 1983 no further mention was made.  Next week, we'll
> look at the latter half of 1982 and work forward.
>
> In summary, we have not yet found a currently in force restriction on
> the use of livery collars, but the search is not yet finished.
>
> Blaise
> --
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