[Archers] Archers Digest, Vol 104, Issue 21

Wed May 16 17:50:30 PDT 2012

Timothy, thank you for the kind words. If I remember didn't Fen shoot for
Needwood last year? I would hate to see anyone excluded because of their
location with a Canton or Shire, I don't see why this would be a limiting
factor? Knowing the family we have in Atlantia, I think we need to assure
that all can play. This is not intended to disrespect the original intent in
any way, but if what I'm hearing is correct about continuing the fun,
creativity and evolution of this event, I say why not?

Janyn

From: archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Warman
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 3:02 PM
To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [Archers] Archers Digest, Vol 104, Issue 21

I would also like to weigh in.  Gregge and I have partnered to compete for
the Lochmere Arrow 7 times if I recall correctly, which is by no means
certain.  Nevertheless, we did win twice competing in other Baronies and we
did not win both times we defended on courses we designed.  I have shot
several courses created by Seamus and Janyn and I have always found them to
be fair tests of an archers skill that day.  I for one see no reason at all
that the defending champions should not compete on the course they design if
they want to.  We do this to have fun.  Shooting is fun, watching is less
fun.

I think we should continue to call it the Lochmere Arrow.  We don't have
enough real history or tradition in our society to toss out any of the bits
we do have.

We should stick with teams fielded from a single barony, shire, etc -
official SCA unit.  For years I have wanted to field a Needwood Forest
Company of Archers team to compete for the Lochmere Arrow.  We never did
because to do so would be outside the bounds of tradition.  I am comfortable
with an archer who lives outside the physical area of a particular barony
being part of that barony's Lochmere Arrow team if the archer plays a
recognized role in the barony such as holding any office.  But I don't want
to see "dream teams" created across borders.  One of the good things about
the Lochmere Arrow is it encourages baronies, etc to have archery programs
rather than just a good archer or two.

Anyway, my goal is to have fun and to occasionally shoot a pointy stick into
a cool target.  Winning is optional.

Timothy of Shaftesbury

From: "archers-request at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org"
<archers-request at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org 
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 11:00 AM
Subject: Archers Digest, Vol 104, Issue 21

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Lochmere Arrow ? Rules Draft (Fen & Michelle)
  2. Re: Lochmere Arrow ? Rules Draft (Bobbi)
  3. Re: Lochmere Arrow ? Rules Draft (Fen & Michelle)

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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 07:12:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fen & Michelle <mobishob at yahoo.com>
To: Jay Nardone <jaynardone at comcast.net>,    'Siegfried'
    <siegfried at crossbows.biz>,    'Jamie Frailey' <jamie at designbyfive.com>
Cc: "archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org"
    <archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [Archers] Lochmere Arrow ? Rules Draft
Message-ID:
    <1337177521.6781.YahooMailNeo at web161702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Janyn: "Unfortunately Seamus and I have decided that we will not shoot to
defend the arrow again this year. We have heard a few comments and I think I
can speak for both of us that we would not want to do anything that would
suggest we were not being honorable.
?
?
I think thats premature. The ONLY complaint I heard last year revolved
around the last station. And quite frankly, at this level of competition if
you get "out smarted" by a hosting team using?outside-the-box tactics, too
bad. You should of thought of it yourself.?In that instance, I don't really
see how Team Seamus/Janyn should have ignored a tactic that had become
obvious to them. Part of the "magic" of competing for the Lochmere Arrow is
taking it away from the defending champs. Its not as much fun Making The
Rubble Bounce :) if the defending team is not defending (sorry, been wanting
to use that phrase in a sentence all month now). So please reconsider.
Victory at an "open" Lochmere tourney just doesn't mean?the same thing. 
?
As for rules, I'm with the very wise and astute Baron Siegfried who
(sigh)?already made most of my best points - keep it flexible, count on the
Honor of the hosting team to adapt or make exceptions to the rules, rather
than making a new rule up for every situation. Else, each Lochmere team will
need to add a rules lawyer to be competitive. Hmmmm,?lawyers running around
the archery range... SO, I prefer giving the Hosting Team discretionary
authority to run the shoot as they see fit, with whatever flavours* they
want to add. (* "reasonable" changes to the format, and if a Team goes out
of bounds, rely on the peer pressure from within the archery community to
bring them back in)
?
HOWEVER, since we are looking at the codifying some *basic* rules for the
shoot and likely won't revise them again for several years, a few things to
consider:
?
1) It wasn't always two team members, it used to be three (and included?the
group's?Seneschal) ?So two is not set in stone. 
?
2) Used to be called the "Atlantian Arrow" or (I think?) the "Golden Arrow".
Do we want to keep the traditional "Lochmere Arrow" name or do we want to
use this opportunity to?rename it something?thats inclusive of?all Atlantia?

?
3) "Plays with group" is a fuzzy line. I come from a Shire where we have
lots of members playing with neighboring groups (due to my poor hygiene, I'm
told). Some of them go back and forth between our Shire and their?adopted
group so frequently that I really couldn't define which "group" they are
based out of. Cerwidwyn of Storvik is another example - she?has been
practicing with Roxbury Mill for the last 4 years, does that mean she would
have been?eligible to shoot for Roxbury?? The "plays with group" will be
difficult to adjudicate. I guess we just stay flexible and remember the goal
is to have?as many competitive teams as possible. 
?
4) Baronial Champions. Last?Lochmere shoot I was serving as Storvik's
Archery Champ (not my home group). It made sense to me that I should be
allowed to put together a Storvik Team, but the rules didn't cover it. I
went to the defending team and asked their permission to make an exception.
To their credit, both Janyn and Seamus wanted the competition and allowed
it. Now, I know we have several?former Barons here who?can attest that
Baronial Champions are selected for a variety of reasons,?not always dealing
with prowess. Should we allow Baronial Champs to compete for the Barony they
are representing that year? I think so, and I don't think the Baronage will
abuse?it and?send ringers in. This also gives some?chance for top shooters
(like Miles) who?haven't been able to?compete because their local group
doesn't have?another archer to team up with.???
?
5) History. When I autocrated Gregge/Tim's Lochmere shoot, I intended to
gather and update the history of the Lochmere Challenge. I think every
autocrat/defending team has wanted to do the same. But we always seem to run
out of time (cause uhm...we're kinda already busy getting the event
launched). Have someone *outside* of the current defending group start
working on that. I also want to see the previous winners list published
along with the history - remember back in?high school? Seeing the "State
Champions 1967, State Champions 1984" banners hanging from your gymansium
ceiling???Remember vowing that "this is the year we bring it back home" ?
Let's encourage more of?that spirit.?
?
6) Siegfried: "...there's been a very strong tradition of the winners are
the designers, and they compete for it to retain the arrow as well"
?
I want to reiterate His Excellency's comment. One thing I love about the
Lochmere Arrow trophy arrow is that you get to add your group's cresting to
it when you win, and there are already several bands of the same pattern
next to each other signifying repeat Champs. Also, if you don't let the
winners design their own course, you usually are taking the best designers
of that local group out of play. So lets continue to allow the defending
team to compete to retain the arrow. Sure, no matter what precautions they
take, there will always be varying levels of advantage that, no matter how
try to minimize, will give them a slight edge. Tough. Call it Home Field
advantage and start training earlier and harder :)
?
Cheers
Fen
?
?Atlantian Archery. Nothing exists within 100 yards without our permission.
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 07:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bobbi <wavqueen1 at yahoo.com>
To: "archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org"
    <archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [Archers] Lochmere Arrow ? Rules Draft
Message-ID:
    <1337180266.96872.YahooMailNeo at web43136.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Even though I have been unable to shoot for a while due to medical reasons,
I hope that I can put in some .02? worth. (I also hope that you are able to
see my point because sometimes I don't quite say what I am trying to).

Fen wrote "Call it Home Field advantage and start training earlier and
harder :)" and I want to say that I totally agree. Even if it isn't by
designing a shoot, everyone in their own way has an "advantage" over someone
else. Be it that person A has been working much harder on a particular style
of shoot, so they have an advantage over person B on that shoot; or person C
has been walking off distances for much longer than person D to work on
eyeing how far away a shoot is, so they have an advantage over person D on
that one; etc. There will always be advantages, including home field, with
anything.

I for one REALLY want to see it continue to be the defending Champions
compete to keep the arrow. I truly hope that team Seamus/Janyn will
reconsider for the upcoming competetion.?
Serena
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 08:00:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fen & Michelle <mobishob at yahoo.com>
To: archers <archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [Archers] Lochmere Arrow ? Rules Draft
Message-ID:
    <1337180429.69795.YahooMailNeo at web161704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

?
....3) The "plays with group" will be difficult to adjudicate
?
Just remembered that archers DO?identify what "group" they?belong to?on the
Royal Rounds website. Use that to determine baseline eligibility for
a?Lochmere team. Allow people who change their status to compete for their
new group?if that change was made at least 1 year before the event date.
Have the local marshal of the shooters new/old group cc the DEM when an
archers home "group" is edited on the site so?DEM?has proof of?when the
shooter changed groups.
?
Cheers
Fen
?
?

Atlantian Archery. Nothing exists within 100 yards without our permission.
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