[Archers] Archers Digest, Vol 104, Issue 21

Tim Warman timothywarman at yahoo.com
Wed May 16 12:01:35 PDT 2012 

I would also like to weigh in.  Gregge and I have partnered to compete for the Lochmere Arrow 7 times if I recall correctly, which is by no means certain.  Nevertheless, we did win twice competing in other Baronies and we did not win both times we defended on courses we designed.  I have shot several courses created by Seamus and Janyn and I have always found them to be fair tests of an archers skill that day.  I for one see no reason at all that the defending champions should not compete on the course they design if they want to.  We do this to have fun.  Shooting is fun, watching is less fun.
 
I think we should continue to call it the Lochmere Arrow.  We don't have enough real history or tradition in our society to toss out any of the bits we do have.
 
We should stick with teams fielded from a single barony, shire, etc - official SCA unit.  For years I have wanted to field a Needwood Forest Company of Archers team to compete for the Lochmere Arrow.  We never did because to do so would be outside the bounds of tradition.  I am comfortable with an archer who lives outside the physical area of a particular barony being part of that barony's Lochmere Arrow team if the archer plays a recognized role in the barony such as holding any office.  But I don't want to see "dream teams" created across borders.  One of the good things about the Lochmere Arrow is it encourages baronies, etc to have archery programs rather than just a good archer or two.
 
Anyway, my goal is to have fun and to occasionally shoot a pointy stick into a cool target.  Winning is optional.
 
Timothy of Shaftesbury
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Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 11:00 AM
Subject: Archers Digest, Vol 104, Issue 21

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Lochmere Arrow ? Rules Draft (Fen & Michelle)
  2. Re: Lochmere Arrow ? Rules Draft (Bobbi)
  3. Re: Lochmere Arrow ? Rules Draft (Fen & Michelle)


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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 07:12:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fen & Michelle <mobishob at yahoo.com>
To: Jay Nardone <jaynardone at comcast.net>,    'Siegfried'
    <siegfried at crossbows.biz>,    'Jamie Frailey' <jamie at designbyfive.com>
Cc: "archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org"
    <archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [Archers] Lochmere Arrow ? Rules Draft
Message-ID:
    <1337177521.6781.YahooMailNeo at web161702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Janyn: "Unfortunately Seamus and I have decided that we will not shoot to defend the arrow again this year. We have heard a few comments and I think I can speak for both of us that we would not want to do anything that would suggest we were not being honorable.
?
?
I think thats premature. The ONLY complaint I heard last year revolved around the last station. And quite frankly, at this level of competition if you get "out smarted" by a hosting team using?outside-the-box tactics, too bad. You should of thought of it yourself.?In that instance, I don't really see how Team Seamus/Janyn should have ignored a tactic that had become obvious to them. Part of the "magic" of competing for the Lochmere Arrow is taking it away from the defending champs. Its not as much fun Making The Rubble Bounce :) if the defending team is not defending (sorry, been wanting to use that phrase in a sentence all month now). So please reconsider. Victory at an "open" Lochmere tourney just doesn't mean?the same thing. 
?
As for rules, I'm with the very wise and astute Baron Siegfried who (sigh)?already made most of my best points - keep it flexible, count on the Honor of the hosting team to adapt or make exceptions to the rules, rather than making a new rule up for every situation. Else, each Lochmere team will need to add a rules lawyer to be competitive. Hmmmm,?lawyers running around the archery range... SO, I prefer giving the Hosting Team discretionary authority to run the shoot as they see fit, with whatever flavours* they want to add. (* "reasonable" changes to the format, and if a Team goes out of bounds, rely on the peer pressure from within the archery community to bring them back in)
?
HOWEVER, since we are looking at the codifying some *basic* rules for the shoot and likely won't revise them again for several years, a few things to consider:
?
1) It wasn't always two team members, it used to be three (and included?the group's?Seneschal) ?So two is not set in stone. 
?
2) Used to be called the "Atlantian Arrow" or (I think?) the "Golden Arrow". Do we want to keep the traditional "Lochmere Arrow" name or do we want to use this opportunity to?rename it something?thats inclusive of?all Atlantia? 
?
3) "Plays with group" is a fuzzy line. I come from a Shire where we have lots of members playing with neighboring groups (due to my poor hygiene, I'm told). Some of them go back and forth between our Shire and their?adopted group so frequently that I really couldn't define which "group" they are based out of. Cerwidwyn of Storvik is another example - she?has been practicing with Roxbury Mill for the last 4 years, does that mean she would have been?eligible to shoot for Roxbury?? The "plays with group" will be difficult to adjudicate. I guess we just stay flexible and remember the goal is to have?as many competitive teams as possible. 
?
4) Baronial Champions. Last?Lochmere shoot I was serving as Storvik's Archery Champ (not my home group). It made sense to me that I should be allowed to put together a Storvik Team, but the rules didn't cover it. I went to the defending team and asked their permission to make an exception. To their credit, both Janyn and Seamus wanted the competition and allowed it. Now, I know we have several?former Barons here who?can attest that Baronial Champions are selected for a variety of reasons,?not always dealing with prowess. Should we allow Baronial Champs to compete for the Barony they are representing that year? I think so, and I don't think the Baronage will abuse?it and?send ringers in. This also gives some?chance for top shooters (like Miles) who?haven't been able to?compete because their local group doesn't have?another archer to team up with.???
?
5) History. When I autocrated Gregge/Tim's Lochmere shoot, I intended to gather and update the history of the Lochmere Challenge. I think every autocrat/defending team has wanted to do the same. But we always seem to run out of time (cause uhm...we're kinda already busy getting the event launched). Have someone *outside* of the current defending group start working on that. I also want to see the previous winners list published along with the history - remember back in?high school? Seeing the "State Champions 1967, State Champions 1984" banners hanging from your gymansium ceiling???Remember vowing that "this is the year we bring it back home" ? Let's encourage more of?that spirit.?
?
6) Siegfried: "...there's been a very strong tradition of the winners are the designers, and they compete for it to retain the arrow as well"
?
I want to reiterate His Excellency's comment. One thing I love about the Lochmere Arrow trophy arrow is that you get to add your group's cresting to it when you win, and there are already several bands of the same pattern next to each other signifying repeat Champs. Also, if you don't let the winners design their own course, you usually are taking the best designers of that local group out of play. So lets continue to allow the defending team to compete to retain the arrow. Sure, no matter what precautions they take, there will always be varying levels of advantage that, no matter how try to minimize, will give them a slight edge. Tough. Call it Home Field advantage and start training earlier and harder :)
?
Cheers
Fen
?
?Atlantian Archery. Nothing exists within 100 yards without our permission.
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 07:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bobbi <wavqueen1 at yahoo.com>
To: "archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org"
    <archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [Archers] Lochmere Arrow ? Rules Draft
Message-ID:
    <1337180266.96872.YahooMailNeo at web43136.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Even though I have been unable to shoot for a while due to medical reasons, I hope that I can put in some .02? worth. (I also hope that you are able to see my point because sometimes I don't quite say what I am trying to).


Fen wrote "Call it Home Field advantage and start training earlier and harder :)" and I want to say that I totally agree. Even if it isn't by designing a shoot, everyone in their own way has an "advantage" over someone else. Be it that person A has been working much harder on a particular style of shoot, so they have an advantage over person B on that shoot; or person C has been walking off distances for much longer than person D to work on eyeing how far away a shoot is, so they have an advantage over person D on that one; etc. There will always be advantages, including home field, with anything.

I for one REALLY want to see it continue to be the defending Champions compete to keep the arrow. I truly hope that team Seamus/Janyn will reconsider for the upcoming competetion.?
Serena
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 08:00:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fen & Michelle <mobishob at yahoo.com>
To: archers <archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [Archers] Lochmere Arrow ? Rules Draft
Message-ID:
    <1337180429.69795.YahooMailNeo at web161704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

?
....3) The "plays with group" will be difficult to adjudicate
?
Just remembered that archers DO?identify what "group" they?belong to?on the Royal Rounds website. Use that to determine baseline eligibility for a?Lochmere team. Allow people who change their status to compete for their new group?if that change was made at least 1 year before the event date. Have the local marshal of the shooters new/old group cc the DEM when an archers home "group" is edited on the site so?DEM?has proof of?when the shooter changed groups.
?
Cheers
Fen
?
?

Atlantian Archery. Nothing exists within 100 yards without our permission.
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