[Archers] Archery bottlenecks

Mon Mar 26 10:07:47 PDT 2012

Sorry Jonathas, didn't mean for it to be a handbow versus crossbow thing.
Just an observation or expressing my frustrations from past Master's Shoots
at Pennsic.  Personally I don't shoot well when I have to shoot at high
accuracy targets then wait 45 - 90 minutes to shoot again (been there, done
that in past shoots).  I find it exceptionally frustrating.  I like your
solution to the potential problem though.

cog

From: james.kriebel at gmail.com [mailto:james.kriebel at gmail.com] On Behalf Of
Jonathas
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:43 AM
To: John Atkins
Cc: Holly Gibbons; archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [Archers] Archery bottlenecks

Jeeze Cog, you had to make it into Crossbow vs Handbow thang didn't ya!  ;)

Seriously though, Cog does have a point.  I had the "joy" of shooting with
not one of this style crossbow archer a few years back in the Pennsic
Master's Tourney, it was even driving their team mates crazy.

One solution I've seen used a few places is to set a maximum time limit on
*ALL* stations.  Just set that time limit high enough that for your typical
archer there is plenty of time to shoot the required number of arrows,
something like 15~20 seconds per arrow, so a six arrow station would have
about 2 minutes to shoot.  Plenty of time if you keep moving but not enough
time if you want to over analyze every shot, and no where close to a
"speed/timed" shoot.

Jonathas

On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 11:05 AM, John Atkins <cogworks at triad.rr.com> wrote:

Holly/Nuala,

Excellent points.  I think #12 below covers it but let me expand in case it
didn't.  Difficult or complicated scoring.  The scoring marshal should be
able to score most shafts from 10 feet away.  I know that is not always
possible nor the most accurate but my point is there should NOT be a 10
minute discussion about whether or not the shaft is worth 3 points or 4
points!

And not to be harsh on my crossbow buddies, but they do tend to take
considerably longer to shoot than the handbow folks.  At Pennsic it is quite
typical for a corssbowman to shoot, then take a minute or three to decide
was it in or not?  Should I change my aiming point?  We have all seen these
crossbowmen take a very long time to get off 6 bolts.  Consider that in your
target/shooting station design. Or maybe the Atlantian crossbowmen could
"teach" the other kingdom crossbowmen how to shoot faster!  J  Typically
very small targets at distance are the cause of this bottleneck.

And as long as we are still in the planning stages of this shoot, how about
an "award" for the worst score of an archer with an RR average of 60 or
higher?  They would have to eat a bowl of that "pink stuff" Colum seems to
favor from the ice cream vendors.  Hahahahaha  Sometimes I just crack myself
up......

Cog....now running from Colum...how far can he shoot?

From: archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Holly
Gibbons
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 9:21 AM
To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Subject: [Archers] Archery bottlenecks

Greetings, archers! Some thoughts on targets for St. Sebastian's and the
issue of bottlenecks. . .

In our experience, there are different of kinds of bottlenecks. Here's just
a sampling below with a bunch of examples and you all can think of many
more. Everyone  of us has seen these bottlenecks at our shoots, some of
which can be easily avoided by rewriting the target instructions or by
physical adjustments. Usually if it's a normal shoot these things don't
cause a terrible problem, but for a large shoot like St. Sebastian's, it's
wise to think carefully about every one of these possibilities. Some target
ideas are fantastic and clever but just will not be a good idea for St.
Sebastian's.

The first and most common kind of bottleneck is caused by the number of
archers who can shoot or retrieve at a time:

1. stations that require shooters to go one at a time or minimize the
numbers of shooters at a time (like 2 at a time)

2. stations that require retrieving arrows after only one or two shooters

The second kind of bottleneck is a target/range design bottleneck:

3. targets that are complicated to "reset" physically

4. stations where a lot of arrows get lost

5. target designs where pulling arrows is physically difficult 

6. stations where it is physically difficult to get on and off the shooting
line

7. targets with some kind of mechanical or physical failure point, like
things falling off in the wind and having to be put back

8. a range where several stations share a safety zone and are ganged
together

The third kind of bottleneck occurs because of the written target
instructions: 

9. stations requiring a "target check" - - - these are usually situations
where you can shoot an arrow but then need to know if the arrow has "hit"
before deciding where to aim the next arrow

10. stations that require deciphering complicated instructions because
everyone stands there and reads and rereads and discusses the instructions
instead of shooting right away

11. timed stations where the timer is hard to operate or reset or means only
half the group shoots at a time

12. complicated scoring where everyone has to count very carefully or do
math, which ends in much discussion

Then there are other kinds of "human" bottlenecks:

13. stations that require many arrows per archer, not timed, because some
folks really take their time

14. children or novices

15. line marshals who get distracted while people wait to shoot

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