[Archers] Archery bottlenecks
Jay Nardone
jaynardone at comcast.net
Mon Mar 26 13:17:45 PDT 2012
All very good discussions but I don't anticipate any real issue areas. I
know how it ran last year and there was only one station we really had an
issue with and we still processed over 250+ shooters in the allotted time. I
will be watching closely this year for any potential areas of concern. With
our marshal's team at each station we should be able to police and gauge how
things are running based on our attendance. I know I will be focusing on
this during the day as I walk around.
Janyn, aka one of the slow cross bow shooters now :P
-----Original Message-----
From: archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of John Atkins
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 1:15 PM
To: 'Siegfried'; archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [Archers] Archery bottlenecks
Siegfried touches on another of my pet peeves about some shoots, tiny high
point areas. My eyes don't see very small things beyond 40 yards. When the
high score target is something about 1 - 2 inches in diameter at 50 - 70
yards I consider the shot a dumb luck shot. But then I ask myself "who
hunts squirrels at 50 - 70 yards anyway?". I would add though that targets
can be made much more challenging without adding distance, add obstructions
instead. i.e. Between the target and the archer is a tree. The archer must
either shoot around the tree or make a very on line shot to hit the high
score area. I do this kind of shot regularly on my practice range at home.
It's fun and not hard on arrows as one might expect. For those that have
shot SAAD when I was MIC you have shot this sort of station in the woods.
cog
-----Original Message-----
From: archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Siegfried
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:51 PM
To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [Archers] Archery bottlenecks
I'd actually suggest, that as COG stated, pure target design can make this
less painful as well.
The only reason a typical 'one of those crossbow shooters' tends to get that
picky. Is when there is either 'complicated scoring' (such as "must hit
this 3 targets before hitting target #4")
Or a very small kill/extra point zone, with multiple shots allowed at it,
where they want to be extra sure of their aim point.
Solutions to this (which I think are good shoot design thoughts in general,
as they solve many of the issues):
* LARGE targets, and if you want kill or +point zones, make them BIG as
well. So it's pretty easy to tell if you hit/missed. Make stuff more
difficult by making it a farther shoot, not a smaller target.
* If you do want something small, or a small kill zone. Only allow 1
shot per target. IE: A standard 'hunt', with 5 animals, you get one
shot at each. Since each target is different, an 'dead aim' style
crossbow shooter, doesn't have a chance to sight in and take another shot
anyway. They have to just keep moving on to the next target. And how the
'last one hit' isn't nearly as important.
Siegfried
On 3/26/12 11:43 AM, Jonathas wrote:
> Jeeze Cog, you had to make it into Crossbow vs Handbow thang didn't
> ya! ;)
>
> Seriously though, Cog does have a point. I had the "joy" of shooting
> with not one of this style crossbow archer a few years back in the
> Pennsic Master's Tourney, it was even driving their team mates crazy.
>
> One solution I've seen used a few places is to set a maximum time
> limit on *ALL* stations. Just set that time limit high enough that
> for your typical archer there is plenty of time to shoot the required
> number of arrows, something like 15~20 seconds per arrow, so a six
> arrow station would have about 2 minutes to shoot. Plenty of time if
> you keep moving but not enough time if you want to over analyze every
> shot, and no where close to a "speed/timed" shoot.
>
> Jonathas
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 11:05 AM, John Atkins <cogworks at triad.rr.com
> <mailto:cogworks at triad.rr.com>> wrote:
>
> Holly/Nuala,____
>
> Excellent points. I think #12 below covers it but let me expand in
> case it didn't. Difficult or complicated scoring. The scoring
> marshal should be able to score most shafts from 10 feet away. I
> know that is not always possible nor the most accurate but my point
> is there should NOT be a 10 minute discussion about whether or not
> the shaft is worth 3 points or 4 points!____
>
> __ __
>
> And not to be harsh on my crossbow buddies, but they do tend to take
> considerably longer to shoot than the handbow folks. At Pennsic it
> is quite typical for a corssbowman to shoot, then take a minute or
> three to decide was it in or not? Should I change my aiming point?
> We have all seen these crossbowmen take a very long time to get off
> 6 bolts. Consider that in your target/shooting station design. Or
> maybe the Atlantian crossbowmen could "teach" the other kingdom
> crossbowmen how to shoot faster! J Typically very small targets at
> distance are the cause of this bottleneck.____
>
> __ __
>
> And as long as we are still in the planning stages of this shoot,
> how about an "award" for the worst score of an archer with an RR
> average of 60 or higher? They would have to eat a bowl of that
> "pink stuff" Colum seems to favor from the ice cream vendors.
> Hahahahaha Sometimes I just crack myself up......____
>
> __ __
>
> Cog....now running from Colum...how far can he shoot?____
>
> __ __
>
> *From:*archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> <mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
> [mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> <mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>] *On Behalf Of
> *Holly Gibbons
> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2012 9:21 AM
> *To:* archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> <mailto:archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
> *Subject:* [Archers] Archery bottlenecks____
>
> __ __
>
> Greetings, archers! Some thoughts on targets for St. Sebastian's and
> the issue of bottlenecks. . .____
>
> ____
>
> In our experience, there are different of kinds of bottlenecks.
> Here's just a sampling below with a bunch of examples and you all
> can think of many more. Everyone of us has seen these bottlenecks
> at our shoots, some of which can be easily avoided by rewriting the
> target instructions or by physical adjustments. Usually if it's a
> normal shoot these things don't cause a terrible problem, but for a
> large shoot like St. Sebastian's, it's wise to think carefully about
> every one of these possibilities. Some target ideas are fantastic
> and clever but just will not be a good idea for St.
> Sebastian's.____
>
> ____
>
> The first and most common kind of bottleneck is caused by the number
> of archers who can shoot or retrieve at a time:____
>
> 1. stations that require shooters to go one at a time or minimize
> the numbers of shooters at a time (like 2 at a time)____
>
> 2. stations that require retrieving arrows after only one or two
> shooters____
>
> ____
>
> The second kind of bottleneck is a target/range design
> bottleneck:____
>
> 3. targets that are complicated to "reset" physically____
>
> 4. stations where a lot of arrows get lost____
>
> 5. target designs where pulling arrows is physically difficult
> ____
>
> 6. stations where it is physically difficult to get on and off the
> shooting line____
>
> 7. targets with some kind of mechanical or physical failure point,
> like things falling off in the wind and having to be put back____
>
> 8. a range where several stations share a safety zone and are ganged
> together____
>
> ____
>
> The third kind of bottleneck occurs because of the written target
> instructions: ____
>
> 9. stations requiring a "target check" - - - these are usually
> situations where you can shoot an arrow but then need to know if the
> arrow has "hit" before deciding where to aim the next arrow____
>
> 10. stations that require deciphering complicated instructions
> because everyone stands there and reads and rereads and discusses
> the instructions instead of shooting right away____
>
> 11. timed stations where the timer is hard to operate or reset or
> means only half the group shoots at a time____
>
> 12. complicated scoring where everyone has to count very carefully
> or do math, which ends in much discussion____
>
> ____
>
> Then there are other kinds of "human" bottlenecks:____
>
> 13. stations that require many arrows per archer, not timed, because
> some folks really take their time____
>
> 14. children or novices____
>
> 15. line marshals who get distracted while people wait to
> shoot____
>
> ____
>
>
>
> ____
>
>
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--
Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
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