<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sorry Jonathas, didn’t mean for it to be a handbow versus crossbow thing. Just an observation or expressing my frustrations from past Master’s Shoots at Pennsic. Personally I don’t shoot well when I have to shoot at high accuracy targets then wait 45 – 90 minutes to shoot again (been there, done that in past shoots). I find it exceptionally frustrating. I like your solution to the potential problem though.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>cog<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> james.kriebel@gmail.com [mailto:james.kriebel@gmail.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jonathas<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 26, 2012 11:43 AM<br><b>To:</b> John Atkins<br><b>Cc:</b> Holly Gibbons; archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Archers] Archery bottlenecks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Jeeze Cog, you had to make it into Crossbow vs Handbow thang didn't ya! ;)<br><br>Seriously though, Cog does have a point. I had the "joy" of shooting with not one of this style crossbow archer a few years back in the Pennsic Master's Tourney, it was even driving their team mates crazy.<br><br>One solution I've seen used a few places is to set a maximum time limit on *ALL* stations. Just set that time limit high enough that for your typical archer there is plenty of time to shoot the required number of arrows, something like 15~20 seconds per arrow, so a six arrow station would have about 2 minutes to shoot. Plenty of time if you keep moving but not enough time if you want to over analyze every shot, and no where close to a "speed/timed" shoot.<br><br>Jonathas<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 11:05 AM, John Atkins <<a href="mailto:cogworks@triad.rr.com">cogworks@triad.rr.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Holly/Nuala,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Excellent points. I think #12 below covers it but let me expand in case it didn’t. Difficult or complicated scoring. The scoring marshal should be able to score most shafts from 10 feet away. I know that is not always possible nor the most accurate but my point is there should NOT be a 10 minute discussion about whether or not the shaft is worth 3 points or 4 points!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And not to be harsh on my crossbow buddies, but they do tend to take considerably longer to shoot than the handbow folks. At Pennsic it is quite typical for a corssbowman to shoot, then take a minute or three to decide was it in or not? Should I change my aiming point? We have all seen these crossbowmen take a very long time to get off 6 bolts. Consider that in your target/shooting station design. Or maybe the Atlantian crossbowmen could “teach” the other kingdom crossbowmen how to shoot faster! </span><span style='font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Typically very small targets at distance are the cause of this bottleneck.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And as long as we are still in the planning stages of this shoot, how about an “award” for the worst score of an archer with an RR average of 60 or higher? They would have to eat a bowl of that “pink stuff” Colum seems to favor from the ice cream vendors. Hahahahaha Sometimes I just crack myself up………………</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cog……….now running from Colum………how far can he shoot?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" target="_blank">archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" target="_blank">archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Holly Gibbons<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 26, 2012 9:21 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org" target="_blank">archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Archers] Archery bottlenecks</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>Greetings, archers! Some thoughts on targets for St. Sebastian's and the issue of bottlenecks. . .<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>In our experience, there are different of kinds of bottlenecks. Here's just a sampling below with a bunch of examples and you all can think of many more. Everyone of us has seen these bottlenecks at our shoots, some of which can be easily avoided by rewriting the target instructions or by physical adjustments. Usually if it's a normal shoot these things don't cause a terrible problem, but for a large shoot like St. Sebastian's, it's wise to think carefully about every one of these possibilities. Some target ideas are fantastic and clever but just will not be a good idea for St. Sebastian's.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>The first and most common kind of bottleneck is caused by the number of archers who can shoot or retrieve at a time:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>1. stations that require shooters to go one at a time or minimize the numbers of shooters at a time (like 2 at a time)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>2. stations that require retrieving arrows after only one or two shooters<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>The second kind of bottleneck is a target/range design bottleneck:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>3. targets that are complicated to "reset" physically<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>4. stations where a lot of arrows get lost<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>5. target designs where pulling arrows is physically difficult <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>6. stations where it is physically difficult to get on and off the shooting line<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>7. targets with some kind of mechanical or physical failure point, like things falling off in the wind and having to be put back<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>8. a range where several stations share a safety zone and are ganged together<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>The third kind of bottleneck occurs because of the written target instructions: <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>9. stations requiring a "target check" - - - these are usually situations where you can shoot an arrow but then need to know if the arrow has "hit" before deciding where to aim the next arrow<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>10. stations that require deciphering complicated instructions because everyone stands there and reads and rereads and discusses the instructions instead of shooting right away<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>11. timed stations where the timer is hard to operate or reset or means only half the group shoots at a time<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>12. complicated scoring where everyone has to count very carefully or do math, which ends in much discussion<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>Then there are other kinds of "human" bottlenecks:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>13. stations that require many arrows per archer, not timed, because some folks really take their time<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>14. children or novices<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>15. line marshals who get distracted while people wait to shoot<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'><br><br> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Archers mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</a><br><a href="http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org" target="_blank">http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>