[Archers] Dropped arrows rule

Fri Aug 27 09:03:33 PDT 2010

Lady Anne,
Unfortunately the rules for SCA activities are not consistent among all
the kingdoms.  Some kingdoms, Atlantia, says for archers to straddle the
shooting line, some, Trimaris, don't.  Some kingdoms, Atlantia, allow
two arrows for the first shot of a timed round, some don't, Glen Ahbend.
Some kingdoms, East, allow rifle stocks on crossbows, some, Atlantia,
don't.  These variances in rules do cause some confusion for archers
when we travel around or go to war.  However, getting every single
kingdom to agree on a set of rules would be harder than controlling the
weather!  The best answer is, learn the rules for your home kingdom.
When you travel to other kingdoms or war and you get "cautioned" about a
minor rule infraction (hopefully not something as drastic as your
crossbow has a rifle stock and that kingdom does not allow them) accept
it and live with it.  I don't say this as a chastisement, just a caution
of what you can expect to encounter within the SCA.  I can still see
Enequy's face when the marshal at Gulf Wars told him he could not start
his timed round with two arrows.  Picture a kid who just had their ice
cream cone taken away!

Now to the issue of shooting two arrows at once, perhaps this comes
merely as a heads up but take it as you will.  During the first part of
the first week at this year's Pennsic I was on the range with about 3
other folks.  They were shooting other stations but we crossed paths a
few times.  One fellow told me he was going to ask Squirrel if he could
set and run the Champion's Shoot next year.  I say this only to put him
in context if you know who he is as I have long since forgotten his
name.  He was discussing the shooting of two arrows.  His point is that
it is a highly dangerous act.  I gently told him a lady in my area, our
very own Lorelei, does it all the time and safely.  To emphasize his
point, he nocked two arrows and shot them saying "there, see?  You can't
control them.  Look at that spread!"  He shot his arrows about 25 yards
and they landed about 1 1/2 feet apart.  I again told him of Lorelei and
that she regularly gets her two arrows inside the red at 20 yards.  But
his point was that he plans on taking his "issue" to the highest
authority and have it outlawed.  He maintains that there are archers who
can safely shoot two arrows but if a novice saw this and tried it that
it would digress into a very unsafe act.  I then asked him about the
holding of arrows in the bow hand during a speed round.  That seemed to
perplex him at which point I did my exit stage left and continued
shooting.  I relay this story only in that there may be a remote
possibility that a rule may be considered from the SCA marshal
concerning shooting two arrows at the same time.  My position is that
those I know who do it are no safety hazard to the range.  If a person
is having difficulty doing it, and it should be obvious, a safe, good
marshal will step in and tell them not to do it.  Much like stepping
over the line to pick up a dropped arrow.

cog

-----Original Message-----
From: Summer Rain [mailto:summerrain.wa at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 11:41 AM
To: John Atkins
Cc: Garth G. Groff; Archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [Archers] Dropped arrows rule

Hi,
I'm going to chime in. As a new archer, I was told to leave a dropped
arrow on the ground regardless of where it landed. I thought it was
already in the rules. 

If you look at other kingdom archery rules, they specifically mention
dropped arrows. Please remember, that for a new archer, it doesn't
matter where the arrow lands, if they are taught it is okay to pick it
up in one instance,and not another, it can become second nature to stoop
and pick one up, without forthought of safety.

My thought and what I was taught was if an arrow is on the ground, it
stays there until all bows are down. 

Now, what about bounced arrows?

In Service,
Lady Anne Rose Smythe
Novice

On Aug 27, 2010 8:13 AM, "John Atkins" <cogworks at triad.rr.com> wrote:
> I'm in agreement about the dropped arrow doesn't count thoughts here.
> We ARE out here for the fun of it, not to penalize folks.
> 
> As for the stepping over the line, we have a rule to cover that. As
for
> picking up a shaft at one's feet, to me this goes right back to the
> quality of the marshal running the line. I have seen marshals
"running"
> the line while sitting under a sun shade 10 feet back and 20 feet off
> the end of the line. I have seen marshals, at Pennsic, so involved in
> "teaching/instructing" someone they are not watching the line. To my
> way of thinking these are marshals who should have their warrants
> pulled. A marshal is a safety officer. We have some basic rules to
> fall back on but, as stated in the rules, the marshal is the final
word
> on the range. i.e. atlatl can occur on the arhcery range if the
marshal
> is comfortable with it, otherwise no atlatl. Not everyone who
expresses
> an interest in becoming a marshal should be warranted as a marshal.
> There has to be a judgement on the warranting body of the individual's
> ability to be a GOOD safety officer. You can't write rules that
prevent
> stupid. I know, I've seen too much of it!
> 
> cog
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> [mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Garth
G.
> Groff
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 10:46 AM
> To: Archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: Re: [Archers] Dropped arrows rule
> 
> 
> Lord Siegfried,
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. On searching my failing memory, I think 
> counting a dropped arrow as a shot was the way we did it in college (a

> very long, long time ago!). That was then, this is now.
> 
> When it comes to making more rules, I completely agree with you. That 
> could go on ad nauseum. And since there is now no rule concerning
this, 
> it is better to let sleeping dogs lie.
> 
> As for stooping over to pick up dropped arrows, I'm still against this

> purely as a safety matter. What I don't want to see is any archer on
my 
> line rooting around under somebody else's legs for an arrow. And if an

> arrow is beyond the archer's lead foot, I want it to stay there. Your 
> bolt quiver is a different situation than I was thinking of, and the 
> same is true for drawing arrows from ground quivers.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> 
> Lord Mungo Napier, Shire of Isenfir Target Archery Marshal.
> 
> Siegfried wrote:
>> Greetings Mungo ... I'll chime in with my experiences/thoughts
>>
>> On the 'counts as a shot':
>>
>> I've never seen that applied in the SCA. If you fumble and drop
>> something, whoops, grab another from your quiver. So no, tradition
>> indicates that if you didn't 'shoot it', it wasn't a 'shot'. We
>> shouldn't be trying to find ways to penalize shooters, instead of 
>> letting them have fun.
>>
>> (In fact, I've seen this applied so far as to discount any 'thrown' 
>> arrows, on purpose or by accident as well. Since again, if it wasn't 
>> shot, it wasn't shot)
>>
>> On the safety rule:
>>
>> You are correct, noone should be reaching over a line to pick up an 
>> arrow.
>>
>> (Of course, the situation is somewhat complicated by "How far away
did
>> it drop", etc. As a standing crossbowman, I bend over at a 90degree
> to
>> load my crossbow and draw bolts from a leg quiver. If a bolt drops 
>> right next to my feet, or maybe a foot in front of them, I don't bend
>> any more than normal to snag it. However it's a very different
>> situation when a bolt/arrow falls 3 foot in front of the line, and 
>> someone 'leans out' or 'steps out' to get it. EEEK)
>>
>> And in all honesty, at THAT point, it's covered by the "Noone shall 
>> enter the safety zone during active shooting" bits, so you really 
>> don't need a separate rule.
>>
>> However, also in general, I'd be very hesitant to start listing off 
>> every single "You can't do X" rule. As the list would be ginormous. 
>> You can't turn around with a loaded bow. You can't shoot backwards. 
>> You can't aim your bow at an 80degree angle while drawing it. You 
>> can't poke the guy next to you with an arrow. You can't kick someone 
>> while they are drawing their bow. You can't cut someone's crossbow 
>> string while they are aiming ... etc etc etc etc
>>
>> Such things, IMO, are best left under "Keep a safe line" and "Keep 
>> everyone out of the safety zone" and for the marshal to inform folks 
>> about.
>>
>> Siegfried
> 
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