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<DIV><SPAN class=468594515-27082010><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>Lady
Anne,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468594515-27082010><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial>Unfortunately the rules for SCA activities are not consistent among
all the kingdoms. Some kingdoms, Atlantia, says for archers to straddle
the shooting line, some, Trimaris, don't. Some kingdoms,
Atlantia, allow two arrows for the first shot of a timed round, some don't,
Glen Ahbend. Some kingdoms, East, allow rifle stocks on crossbows, some,
Atlantia, don't. These variances in rules do cause some confusion for
archers when we travel around or go to war. However, getting every single
kingdom to agree on a set of rules would be harder than controlling the
weather! The best answer is, learn the rules for your home kingdom.
When you travel to other kingdoms or war and you get "cautioned" about a minor
rule infraction (hopefully not something as drastic as your crossbow has a rifle
stock and that kingdom does not allow them) accept it and live with it. I
don't say this as a chastisement, just a caution of what you can expect to
encounter within the SCA. I can still see Enequy's face when the marshal
at Gulf Wars told him he could not start his timed round with two arrows.
Picture a kid who just had their ice cream cone taken away!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468594515-27082010><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468594515-27082010><FONT color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial>Now to
the issue of shooting two arrows at once, perhaps this comes merely as a heads
up but take it as you will. During the first part of the first week at
this year's Pennsic I was on the range with about 3 other folks. They were
shooting other stations but we crossed paths a few times. One fellow told
me he was going to ask Squirrel if he could set and run the Champion's Shoot
next year. I say this only to put him in context if you know who he is as
I have long since forgotten his name. He was discussing the shooting of
two arrows. His point is that it is a highly dangerous act. I gently
told him a lady in my area, our very own Lorelei, does it all the time and
safely. To emphasize his point, he nocked two arrows and shot them saying
"there, see? You can't control them. Look at that spread!" He
shot his arrows about 25 yards and they landed about 1 1/2 feet apart. I
again told him of Lorelei and that she regularly gets her two arrows inside the
red at 20 yards. But his point was that he plans on taking his "issue" to
the highest authority and have it outlawed. He maintains that there are
archers who can safely shoot two arrows but if a novice saw this and tried it
that it would digress into a very unsafe act. I then asked him about the
holding of arrows in the bow hand during a speed round. That seemed to
perplex him at which point I did my exit stage left and continued
shooting. I relay this story only in that there may be a remote
possibility that a rule may be considered from the SCA marshal concerning
shooting two arrows at the same time. My position is that those I know who
do it are no safety hazard to the range. If a person is having difficulty
doing it, and it should be obvious, a safe, good marshal will step in and tell
them not to do it. Much like stepping over the line to pick up a dropped
arrow.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468594515-27082010><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468594515-27082010><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial>cog</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=ltr>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left><FONT size=2
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Summer Rain
[mailto:summerrain.wa@gmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 27, 2010
11:41 AM<BR><B>To:</B> John Atkins<BR><B>Cc:</B> Garth G. Groff;
Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Archers] Dropped
arrows rule<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<P>Hi,<BR>I'm going to chime in. As a new archer, I was told to leave a
dropped arrow on the ground regardless of where it landed. I thought it was
already in the rules. </P>
<P>If you look at other kingdom archery rules, they specifically mention
dropped arrows. Please remember, that for a new archer, it doesn't matter
where the arrow lands, if they are taught it is okay to pick it up in one
instance,and not another, it can become second nature to stoop and pick one
up, without forthought of safety.</P>
<P>My thought and what I was taught was if an arrow is on the ground, it stays
there until all bows are down. </P>
<P>Now, what about bounced arrows?</P>
<P>In Service,<BR>Lady Anne Rose Smythe<BR>Novice<BR></P>
<P>On Aug 27, 2010 8:13 AM, "John Atkins" <<A
href="mailto:cogworks@triad.rr.com">cogworks@triad.rr.com</A>> wrote:<BR
type="attribution">> I'm in agreement about the dropped arrow doesn't count
thoughts here.<BR>> We ARE out here for the fun of it, not to penalize
folks.<BR>> <BR>> As for the stepping over the line, we have a rule to
cover that. As for<BR>> picking up a shaft at one's feet, to me this goes
right back to the<BR>> quality of the marshal running the line. I have seen
marshals "running"<BR>> the line while sitting under a sun shade 10 feet
back and 20 feet off<BR>> the end of the line. I have seen marshals, at
Pennsic, so involved in<BR>> "teaching/instructing" someone they are not
watching the line. To my<BR>> way of thinking these are marshals who should
have their warrants<BR>> pulled. A marshal is a safety officer. We have
some basic rules to<BR>> fall back on but, as stated in the rules, the
marshal is the final word<BR>> on the range. i.e. atlatl can occur on the
arhcery range if the marshal<BR>> is comfortable with it, otherwise no
atlatl. Not everyone who expresses<BR>> an interest in becoming a marshal
should be warranted as a marshal.<BR>> There has to be a judgement on the
warranting body of the individual's<BR>> ability to be a GOOD safety
officer. You can't write rules that prevent<BR>> stupid. I know, I've seen
too much of it!<BR>> <BR>> cog<BR>> <BR>> -----Original
Message-----<BR>> From: <A
href="mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</A><BR>>
[mailto:<A
href="mailto:archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">archers-bounces@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of Garth G.<BR>> Groff<BR>> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010
10:46 AM<BR>> To: <A
href="mailto:Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org">Archers@seahorse.atlantia.sca.org</A><BR>>
Subject: Re: [Archers] Dropped arrows rule<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Lord
Siegfried,<BR>> <BR>> Thanks for the clarification. On searching my
failing memory, I think <BR>> counting a dropped arrow as a shot was the
way we did it in college (a <BR>> very long, long time ago!). That was
then, this is now.<BR>> <BR>> When it comes to making more rules, I
completely agree with you. That <BR>> could go on ad nauseum. And since
there is now no rule concerning this, <BR>> it is better to let sleeping
dogs lie.<BR>> <BR>> As for stooping over to pick up dropped arrows, I'm
still against this <BR>> purely as a safety matter. What I don't want to
see is any archer on my <BR>> line rooting around under somebody else's
legs for an arrow. And if an <BR>> arrow is beyond the archer's lead foot,
I want it to stay there. Your <BR>> bolt quiver is a different situation
than I was thinking of, and the <BR>> same is true for drawing arrows from
ground quivers.<BR>> <BR>> Kind regards,<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Lord
Mungo Napier, Shire of Isenfir Target Archery Marshal.<BR>> <BR>>
Siegfried wrote:<BR>>> Greetings Mungo ... I'll chime in with my
experiences/thoughts<BR>>><BR>>> On the 'counts as a
shot':<BR>>><BR>>> I've never seen that applied in the SCA. If you
fumble and drop<BR>>> something, whoops, grab another from your quiver.
So no, tradition<BR>>> indicates that if you didn't 'shoot it', it
wasn't a 'shot'. We<BR>>> shouldn't be trying to find ways to penalize
shooters, instead of <BR>>> letting them have
fun.<BR>>><BR>>> (In fact, I've seen this applied so far as to
discount any 'thrown' <BR>>> arrows, on purpose or by accident as well.
Since again, if it wasn't <BR>>> shot, it wasn't
shot)<BR>>><BR>>> On the safety rule:<BR>>><BR>>> You
are correct, noone should be reaching over a line to pick up an <BR>>>
arrow.<BR>>><BR>>> (Of course, the situation is somewhat
complicated by "How far away did<BR>>> it drop", etc. As a standing
crossbowman, I bend over at a 90degree<BR>> to<BR>>> load my crossbow
and draw bolts from a leg quiver. If a bolt drops <BR>>> right next to
my feet, or maybe a foot in front of them, I don't bend<BR>>> any more
than normal to snag it. However it's a very different<BR>>> situation
when a bolt/arrow falls 3 foot in front of the line, and <BR>>> someone
'leans out' or 'steps out' to get it. EEEK)<BR>>><BR>>> And in all
honesty, at THAT point, it's covered by the "Noone shall <BR>>> enter
the safety zone during active shooting" bits, so you really <BR>>> don't
need a separate rule.<BR>>><BR>>> However, also in general, I'd be
very hesitant to start listing off <BR>>> every single "You can't do X"
rule. As the list would be ginormous. <BR>>> You can't turn around with
a loaded bow. You can't shoot backwards. <BR>>> You can't aim your bow
at an 80degree angle while drawing it. You <BR>>> can't poke the guy
next to you with an arrow. You can't kick someone <BR>>> while they are
drawing their bow. You can't cut someone's crossbow <BR>>> string while
they are aiming ... etc etc etc etc<BR>>><BR>>> Such things, IMO,
are best left under "Keep a safe line" and "Keep <BR>>> everyone out of
the safety zone" and for the marshal to inform folks <BR>>>
about.<BR>>><BR>>> Siegfried<BR>> <BR>>
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