[MR] Atlantia Digest, Vol 101, Issue 19

[Helen Rogers]

Perhaps a class in "Communication" is necessary... for everyone. Apparently, we are back at square one... :(. I"m not going to elaborate, as I'll beat a dead horse. As we all have seen, there are various ways to communicate, and no one is correct. But, there are ways to get your point across without offending.

 Cassandra

 Message: 1 Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 01:54:46 -0400 From: "Logan" <Logan at ebonwoulfe.com> To: <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org> Subject: Re: [MR] Egyptian Personas in the SCA Message-ID: <000301cc2345$14612c50$3d2384f0$@ebonwoulfe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" actually i never stated anything of the sort. i never said anything even close to calling you a liar, about hearsay, etc. i only commented on the one thing you said which was you were treated in such a way. i do find it odd that ive never met folks that were treated the way you describe. never. but here is the thing. so, a new person finds the sca and you suggest they come in, dress themself up in a certain way, never talk with anyone beforehand, never meet anyone beforehand, they just show up. the just show up wearing something that has no place in the sca. unannounced. they somehow find the sca somewhere (on the web?), and they just wing it. really? look, either they met someone in the sca who said "sure, you can wear that...... it will be fun" or they were the bravest of the brave and said 'huh, look at this sca thing. i will figure out where the next event is, then i will figure out what the costs are, then i will stop looking and just make some garb." so they find the sca, decide they want to try it, and somehow show up dressed like a steampunk whatever? does that make sense? you claim to wish upon a pile of nickels for every person who did this. or did they meet sca folk who said "do what you like, we dont mind?" see i want you to help correct the problem. if they met sca folk that said "wear a maille bikini" or "be a tuchux and dress like an extra from a road warrior reject film" then met you and were upset that they were corrected (and didnt like it, oh my!) you should sit them down and help them. if you tell them that its fine, they should be upset, they should ignore the rules of the club they CHOOSE to join, then you are wrong. i mean you claim to have met scores of folks that were told "you cant be an elf" and then claim its the fault of the sca. that makes no sense. so yeah, i will compare the dozens of folks ive met over the years (none of which simply found the sca on line and figured out how to make it to an event, without ever speaking to a single sca person, and dressed like a leather-clad pirate/road warrior reject by the way) who needed some help and information to this plethora of folks you state youve met that were treated poorly. who introduced them and told them it was cool to be a doctor who character? did you figure that out and correct that sca person? if it was just some internet intro why could you not correct them without them feeling so downtrodden? you claim to have salvaged "a few people" so where did they go wrong? either some sca folks screwed it all up and told them "xena" is cool or they found the sca but did no research and just showed up. either way, they are wrong. in the former you clearly must have contacted the sca folks and corrected them...... right!? or, in the latter, you sat them down and asked them how much of the enormous amount of information they actually bothered to read and why they did what they did. i also find it hard to believe that a totally new person would, as you suggest, just show up and go all willy-nilly. again, ive interacted with many dozens of new folks. and none of them fall into the categories you describe. regards logan "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell." Harry S Truman "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared" Niccolo Machiavelli For your SCA combat needs please visit: www.ebonwoulfe.com/armory.htm www.ebonwoulfe.com For worldwide listings of fighter practices please visit: www.fighterpractice.com Message: 2 Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 02:22:34 -0500 From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> To: Atlantia maillist <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org> Subject: [MR] Egyptian A&S entry, SCA boundaries (was Re: Egyptian Personas in the SCA) Message-ID: <5D83E507-6CDE-4E73-B4A6-F4AFC3206C6B at austin.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes ~Roh said: <<< For those who have been following this thread...academically or out of curiosity for Egyptian culture... please check out my A&S display I plan to submit at War of the Wings. I strive to encourage those who are willing to research and put themselves out there knowing they will be judged. I wont say it's [not] easy but I hope that I can set an example... grey area of SCA timeline or not...that others will feel the courage to follow. >>> We've already corresponded on this subject via email, but I wanted to publicly say good luck on your entry and to encourage you to submit your A&S documentation for inclusion in the Florilegium. Or if you prefer, write it up as one or more articles and submit it that way. As you're learning, there isn't much material out there on Roman or medieval Egypt. And this is a way to increase it, and to disseminate the knowledge across the Known World. My standard policy is to accept updates at any time, so you don't have to wait until it's "perfect" and you can improve it as you learn more. As far as the SCA timeline, yes there are a number of grey areas. It is because regions and time periods generally do not have easily defined boundaries. So just when the SCA starts, and even when it ends, and what regions it covers and doesn't cover is likely to vary from SCA kingdom to SCA kingdom and from person to person. Again, because it is difficult to set a sharply defined boundary. While you certainly have the right to push your opinion on what is and is not period, try to keep in mind that one of the key concepts of the SCA is courtesy and it is much more important than authenticity. If it was the reverse, we would be a reenactment group, when we aren't. Why 1600? Why not 1602 when Queen Elizabeth died? Of course if you are doing French or Serbian history, the death of Queen Elizabeth doesn't mean much. The "end of the Middle Ages"? When exactly was the end of the Middle Ages. It may have ended in Italy in the 14th Century on the otherhand you could say it didn't end in Russia until the 18th Century. A lot of A&S competitions will allow documentation published after 1600 to be used. Just because the author, or someone else published in then, doesn't mean the author didn't write it down originally much earlier, before 1600. You have to consider how fast something was changing, knowing that somethings might have changed abruptly in 1610, but many things didn't. Actually this whole concept of "period" is fallacious. You really have to ask period for where? Just because the Elizabethans were were fighting with rapiers and drinking distilled beverages, doesn't mean that these items are "period" for a Norman in England in 1125. Or just because coffee is period for an Egyptian in 1500 doesn't mean it was period for an Englishman. (Coffee didn't show up in England until 1650). Stefan -------- THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous at austin.rr.com **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org **** ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 02:39:42 -0500 From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> To: Atlantia maillist <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org> Subject: [MR] Northern Africa Message-ID: <80AD643F-EE48-4CF9-910C-856F1CEE5601 at austin.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Logan said: <<< in fact i personally was intrigued by the question being that my direct family bloodline, well half of it, comes from northern africa. yes, im an african american! ;8^) >>> You said you don't read collections of emails. So maybe this won't be of use/interest to you. but here are a couple of files in the Florilegium, that may be of interest. Africa-lnks (8K) 3/ 7/07 Links to info on medieval Africa by Dame Aoife Finn of Ynos Mon. http://www.florilegium.org/files/CULTURES/Africa-lnks.html Africa-msg (18K) 9/ 7/00 Africa during the Middle Ages. http://www.florilegium.org/files//CULTURES/Africa-msg.html blacks-msg (80K) 1/16/05 Blacks in medieval Europe. http://www.florilegium.org/files/CULTURES/blacks-msg.html Please understand that I've never met or seen you, but I do understand that you might be referring to just darker complexion than those deeper in Africa, but both were known in Europe. Moors-msg (54K) 2/ 4/08 Culture and clothing of the Moors. http://www.florilegium.org/files/CULTURES/Moors-msg.html fd-Africa-msg (20K) 4/15/10 Period food of northern Africa. http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BY-REGION/fd-Africa-msg.html Stefan -------- THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous at austin.rr.com **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org **** ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 10:41:44 -0400 From: "Terri Morgan" <online2much at cox.net> To: "'Logan'" <Logan at ebonwoulfe.com>, <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org> Subject: [MR] A story Message-ID: <006901cc238e$b0d3cae0$127b60a0$@cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was reading the latest thread (as I should, since I was involved) and the discussion reminded me of something I experienced at Sapphire Joust last weekend. I was sitting under our baronial pavilion by the list field when a young man came up to the front of it. He was wearing cargo pants and a white tee shirt. I vaguely recognised him as the same young man I'd earlier seen wearing a full set of chainmail over the same clothes. He wanted to know if we were the group from around Portsmouth, VA. I said we were, and how could we help him? It turns out that he had heard about / read about the SCA online and had driven up to Sapphire Joust to see what we did. It was his first event. "Oh wow! Really?! How cool!" was the gist of the responses from the folks in the pavilion, after which we told him about where and when we meet when not at events. Amid the general discussion, he mentioned that he liked to make chainmail so when Syr Otto came back to the pavilion, I hastened to introduce the young man to him so they could talk about that (Otto has taught mail-making at a few of our A&S nights). The young man left us to run to his car for his maille (how DO you spell that?). He was from the same Command (he was active-duty) base as Baron Mungoe, so one of our members hastened down to camp to tell Mungoe, who was cooking dinner for the camp, about the guy and to see if Mungoe could come up to meet him. An invitation to come visit camp and meet Mungoe was quickly returned and the young man set off. He stopped by later on, as he was heading for home, to say "hi" again and to let us know that we might not see much of him, as his wife wasn't interested in the SCA, but he would certainly try to come out again. Had he met the rude "you're doing it wrong" kind of people at Sapphire, we certainly would have never been able to meet him. *Someone* talked to him and directed him to our pavilion. I propose that we see many more "good experience" entries, at least, in the SCA, than we do bad ones. Hrothny