[MR] Soundings of the Conch - On Your Feet!

[Terri Morgan]

> My Lady, one of the first things taught to me as a
> newcomer to this grand society, those that have good
> reason need not rise, bow or kneel.  

Absolutely. "Courtesy is integral to the wearer". I regret that a fine and
thoughtful woman would be made to feel shame over something that _is not a
requirement_. It is a _custom_ within Atlantia. It is not, however, a custom
in all Kingdoms of the SCA.

Now, those who know me may be surprised to hear it, but I was raised by a
stern grandmother and Debrett's (Emily Post was a newcomer on the scene)...
women NEVER rose for a toast in my childhood. Never. Because toasts were
performed only at formal occasions, which involved women in full gowns. And
that meant that a gentleman was needed to seat her. We don't generally have
lackeys standing by along the walls to perform this function should a
woman's dining companion not be available. Historically, toasts in mixed
company didn't start catching on until the Victorian era - which, of course,
is what some of our SCA courtesy is based on. And the Age of Equality hit
and suddenly women were performing acts that were reserved to men. It is a
US-based movement. (So far as I can find.) I used to get a giggle out of
watching old movies and upon seeing feasting scenes, guess if the film was
from the US or Britain - if the women rose, it was the US. Always made me
laugh. That doesn't hold true any longer but it was fun in my childhood.

To quote Paul Dickson as he discusses J. Roach's _The Royal Toastmaster_,
published in London in 1791:
An early-if not the earliest-book entirely devoted
to toasts and toasting is J. Roach's The Royal 
Toastmaster, published in London in 1791. Roach 
was clearly intent on cleaning up the image of 
the custom. "Its use," he says of the toast, "is 
well known to all ranks, as a stimulative to hilarity, 
and an incentive to innocent mirth, to loyal truth, 
to pure morality and to mutual affection." At one 
point he ascribes great power to it:
   Roach laments "former times" and to some extent the 
"contemporary custom" of banning women from toasting 
sessions. In introducing his book of "decent toasts" 
he points out that the reason women were often excluded 
is the indecency of many toasts and the general climate 
of "boisterous and illiberal mirth."

So, as Mistress Rhiannon, our Protocol Herald, has stated, everyone rising
for a toast is the common default in this Kingdom. And also that it is to no
one's shame should they not, "ladies ought to rise, _if_ they are able (with
able being determined by each individual)."

I do not. Others may. But please, my lady, let no one drive you to dismay by
judging you over something that is your business and no one else's. In my
old-fashioned world, it is more correct to not rise. But then - that is my
old-fashioned modern world, which assumes that a gentleman would rise and
hold the chair of a lady returning to her seat. And I don't see much of that
at events, either.


Hrothny
--
Dame Hróðný Rognvaldsdóttir, OP, OL
Great Dark Horde, Barony of Marinus
Misericordia Fortitudo Suprema Est
online2much at cox.net