[MR] The Alleged Cesspit That Is The Merry Rose
David Chessler
chessler at usa.net
Fri Aug 26 17:59:32 PDT 2011
There was Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr, for example....
But dueling was common in much of the US until the civil war. If you count
"gunfights," until close to the turn of the last century.
------ Original Message ------
Received: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:53:59 PM EDT
From: Chris Harrop <chrshrrp at yahoo.com>
To: Thorwulfgar Uvaerkaller <thorwulff at yahoo.com>Cc: the merry rose site?
<atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [MR] The Alleged Cesspit That Is The Merry Rose
> It's a good thing we can resolve our disputes with rattan and not lead.
And everyone gets a cold one when the smoke clears. If my history is correct
Americans have found some very noisy and messy ways to settle things once upon
a time.
>
>
> Chris Harrop
> Referral agent and business broker for
> Westgate Realty. Office 703-208-9999. Cell 703-894-7129 and 571-722-7587.
Serving the Washington D.C. metro area.
>
> From: Thorwulfgar Uvaerkaller <thorwulff at yahoo.com>
> To: David Chessler <chessler at usa.net>; Chris Harrop <chrshrrp at yahoo.com>;
Timothy Carter <luminaebanis at hotmail.com>
> Cc: "atlantia at atlantia.sca.org" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 10:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [MR] The Alleged Cesspit That Is The Merry Rose
>
>
> hmm..I never thought anyone with skill of blade gentlemen,
> but since I too wield the blade aside from being heavy,
> well said.
>
> Torgar
>
>
> Fearlessness is better then a faint heart for any man who puts his nose out
of doors,The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long ago.
>
> Thorwulfgar Uvaerkaller
>
>
> From: David Chessler <chessler at usa.net>
> To: Thorwulfgar Uvaerkaller <thorwulff at yahoo.com>; David Chessler
<chessler at usa.net>; Chris Harrop <chrshrrp at yahoo.com>; Timothy Carter
<luminaebanis at hotmail.com>
> Cc: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 11:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [MR] The Alleged Cesspit That Is The Merry Rose
>
> I consider myself a gentleman.
>
> Rapier.
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> Received: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 10:26:20 PM EDT
> From: Thorwulfgar Uvaerkaller <thorwulff at yahoo.com>
> To: David Chessler <chessler at usa.net>, Chris Harrop <chrshrrp at yahoo.com>,
> Timothy Carter <luminaebanis at hotmail.com>Cc: the merry rose site?
> <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
> Subject: Re: [MR] The Alleged Cesspit That Is The Merry Rose
>
> > Force of arms?
> >
> > Heck Yeah! I am for that.
> > pick yer poison....
> >
> > mace,sword,dagger,great sword,long sword,spear,pike,halberd,sword and
> shield,
> > and my messy but personal favorite...axe.
> >
> >
> > Torgar
> >
> >
> > Fearlessness is better then a faint heart for any man who puts his nose
out
> of doors,The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long
ago.
> >
> > Thorwulfgar Uvaerkaller
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: David Chessler <chessler at usa.net>
> > To: Chris Harrop <chrshrrp at yahoo.com>; Timothy Carter
> <luminaebanis at hotmail.com>
> > Cc: the merry rose site? <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 9:13 PM
> > Subject: Re: [MR] The Alleged Cesspit That Is The Merry Rose
> >
> >
> >
> > ------ Original Message ------
> > Received: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 07:48:57 PM EDT
> > From: Chris Harrop <chrshrrp at yahoo.com>
> > To: Timothy Carter <luminaebanis at hotmail.com>Cc: the merry rose site?
> > <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
> > Subject: Re: [MR] The Alleged Cesspit That Is The Merry Rose
> >
> > > Some of this sounds like political speak!
> > >
> >
> > Maybe we should settle our disputes by force of arms. It would be
"period."
> > :-P
> >
> > >
> > > Chris Harrop
> > > Referral agent and business broker for
> > > Westgate Realty. Office 703-208-9999. Cell 703-894-7129 and
> 571-722-7587.
> > Serving the Washington D.C. metro area.
> > >
> > > From: Timothy Carter <luminaebanis at hotmail.com>
> > > To: Hrothny <online2much at cox.net>; paintedwheel at hotmail.com;
> > atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 1:53 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [MR] The Alleged Cesspit That Is The Merry Rose
> > >
> > >
> > > There are many who attempt to live up to the noble ideals the SCA life
> > promotes: courtesy, honor, chivalry -- indeed, the best moral behavior
that
> > many of us cling to as we seek out this dream in our "real life," and in
> > failing to find it in the corporate world, enjoy it in our SCA family.
> When
> > we attend events and are met by newcomers, old friends, and everyone else
> in
> > between, we often portray ourselves as living up to those cherished
ideals
> as
> > best we can. Sometimes not always making it, but all-in-all, I believe
we
> > all at least try.
> > >
> > > But then there are those who are the "Sunday Saints" who act at
modelling
> > the very image of high character, of noble courtesy and chivalrous
> intention,
> > when and where it suits them to do so, mostly at events and other
> face-to-face
> > gatherings where they can and will most likely be held to immediate
> > responsibility for their conduct. It is when such are removed from
public
> > view that their more base nature is set free and finds its way to pollute
> > venues and forums such as our beloved Merry Rose.
> > >
> > > For those that attend, ever notice the "Sunday Saint" being so devout
> while
> > in church only to witness their hypocrisy as they behave poorly and
against
> > church teachings away from the altar? For some, it is no different in
the
> > SCA as such people parade at our meetings and events as if to say, "see
me
> and
> > how I am as Lord/Lady such-and-such," only to forget how they attempted
to
> > project themselves and are left uncovered showing their true behaviors
once
> > the garb comes off.
> > >
> > > For a society where many are and aspire to be noble, even
> nobler-than-thou,
> > in truth I have found there are also many who are not as noble as they
> would
> > play to be; however, even this is accurate in period though time and
again
> it
> > is professed that one of the goals of the SCA is to recreate/display the
> > "best" of our historical period!
> > >
> > > Perhaps what we are experiencing is the result of the decline and
> collapse
> > of effective home training. Maybe educating young people in good social
> > skill has failed to such a point that even institutions as our beloved
SCA
> now
> > feels the bruising that is ripe within the teen and young adult culture
> > outside of the SCA, and if so, perhaps moderating the forum has now
become
> a
> > necessary evil.
> > >
> > > Being an educator, and I am sure many teachers can admit this, the
level
> of
> > consideration and social character has greatly diminished over these last
> > years, due in part to weakening family values, education, and a rise in
> > pushing the youth to become adult-like at younger ages without such
> > development coinciding with understanding and acceptance of
responsibility.
> > >
> > > Are we to take an active hand now and attempt to teach such things to
> those
> > who publish offensive posts? If such rabble and trash were to be
> presented
> > on TV or radio, even websites, then the logical person would simply
switch
> > channels or close the website. Thus it is easy to see why many have
> > abandoned The Merry Rose. BUT this is the medium for the bulk of our
> > communications across the realm. it is OUR voice and ears for the mass
> > populace. We, those who wish to purge the sewer of the vermin and funk
> that
> > created the stench, need to take a proactive stance and not abandon it to
> > those that would destroy.
> > >
> > > It would seem there are two methods to do this that immediately come to
> > mind.
> > >
> > > One method is by moderation which can be easily done through a
> registration
> > process and restricting the forum to members only. Offenders would
> therefore
> > face suspension and/or revokation of posting/memeber privileges -- much
> like
> > how we monitor martial and populace behaviors at events. Perhaps a
> council
> > of moderators holding a forum court to discuss and determine what outcome
> > should be decided upon those who would offend.
> > >
> > > A second method may simply become peer pressure and use political power
> to
> > suppress offfenders, ie. "Baron/Baroness X, Chatelaine W, or Seneschal Y,
> one
> > of your populace is offending the Merry Rose. Would you mind speaking
to
> > him/her about SCA ideals and proper behavior?" Self-policing, which may
> seem
> > a bit like tattle-tailing, may be a solution, if not simply a part of an
> > overall solution. If less people abandoned the forum, then I would hope
> such
> > political powers would step up and handle errant offenders without being
> > requested to do so.
> > >
> > > To those that do read this missive, be considerate of your neighbors
and
> > friends found in The Merry Rose. Post privately your responses before
you
> > post publicly those things you would not want publicly said about you.
> > Before you post, think if it is necessary to attempt to sound/be
important,
> > that if you must nit-pick/correct every error, or attempt to stupify the
> > original posting gentle by wanting to steal thunder and playing
> > one-upsmanship. Is it really to benefit the reader, or is your reply
simply
> to
> > promote your mastery at offending others? If you are truly genius in a
> > topic, show it by writing for Compleat Anachronist and let discussion be
> > discussion by being active in gently leading ithe conversation or
carefully
> > answering posts to promote learning -- not name calling or supporting
> > frustration that damages feeelings and friendships.
> > >
> > > Our real world is not a peaceful place, but here, amongst friends, it
can
> > be. It is our choosing.
> > >
> > >
> > > Timothy Carter
> > > luminaebanis at hotmail.com
> > >
> > > SCA: Herr Gunther von Lindenwald #109809
> > > Barony of Marinus, Atlantia
> > > ---
> > > For EMERGENCIES or more immediate contact,
> > > please call (757) 753-0107. Available ALL hours.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: online2much at cox.net
> > > > To: paintedwheel at hotmail.com; atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
> > > > Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 12:57:52 -0400
> > > > Subject: Re: [MR] The Alleged Cesspit That Is The Merry Rose
> > > >
> > > > > If you think this is a nasty place to hang out...well...
> > > > > all I can say is you ain't been out of the Tavern near enough.
> > > > > This is Romper Room.
> > > >
> > > > It isn't Romper Room. Most of the long-time members and Peers who
have
> > been
> > > > driven off of the Merry Rose are quite well accustomed to the type of
> > acrid
> > > > discussion you allude to - and yet they find this, the place where
> > members
> > > > of the SCA are supposed to be able to chat, learn, and exchange ideas
> to
> > be
> > > > one of the least attractive assets of the SCA and our Kingdom
> > specifically.
> > > > I've been treated to many a confused and pitying look or comment from
> my
> > > > friends about my continued presence here... manly because of the rude
> > > > behaviour of, I have to admit, the most frequent posters. Yeah, you
own
> > the
> > > > List, as it were, you frequent 'expert' posters, and you glory in
your
> > > > fighting - but it is rude and even painful to read.
> > > >
> > > > And this is where our new Kingdom members come first, to get to know
us
> > > > during the week when we're not at events.
> > > >
> > > > That is the *only* reason I am still subscribed. So I can, at need,
> write
> > > > privately to someone who is getting ganged up on and tell them that
> this
> > is
> > > > NOT the true face of Atlantia.
> > > >
> > > > To use a simile, if I were an archaeologist, this would be a midden
> pile.
> > > > There are a few wonderful discoveries here, but the rest is... well,
I
> > don't
> > > > need to finish that, do I?
> > > >
> > > > I came back from Pennsic determined to up the *good* in this List and
> > > > hopefully convince people to join in - to celebrate the SCA and
> Atlantia.
> > To
> > > > overwhelm the squabbling and the offensive posts.
> > > >
> > > > That being said, if you wish to argue the point further with me,
please
> > > > reply to me at online2much at cox.net - I'll be happy to carry on the
> > > > conversation there. But our newcomers, and our oldtimers who are
ready
> to
> > > > quit, really don't need to read more of the condescending and the
> > justifying
> > > > posturing messages.
> > > >
> > > > We have a bad reputation here. Telling people "use your delete key"
> only
> > > > indicates that the sender has no desire to fix that reputation -
which
> > > > indicates to me that they are quite happy to throw mud around, no
> matter
> > > > where or who it splatters. And that, my friends, is unworthy of us.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hrothny
> > > >
> > > >
> ========================================================================
> > > > The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
> > > > List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
> > > > Submissions: Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> > > > Subscriptions:
> > http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/atlantia-atlantia.sca.org
> > >
> > >
========================================================================
> > > The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
> > > List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
> > > Submissions: Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> > > Subscriptions:
> > http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/atlantia-atlantia.sca.org
> > >
========================================================================
> > > The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
> > > List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
> > > Submissions: Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> > > Subscriptions:
> > http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/atlantia-atlantia.sca.org
> >
> >
> > ========================================================================
> > The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
> > List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
> > Submissions: Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> > Subscriptions:
> http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/atlantia-atlantia.sca.org
> > ========================================================================
> > The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
> > List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
> > Submissions: Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> > Subscriptions:
> http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/atlantia-atlantia.sca.org
> ========================================================================
> The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
> List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
> Submissions: Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Subscriptions:
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