[MR] Atlantia Digest, Vol 44, Issue 46
Tricia McDaniel
tmcdaniel at sc.rr.com
Wed Sep 27 07:51:06 PDT 2006
The scene: SCA event with lots of people in strange clothing, some carrying
big sticks. Lots of shouting and movement. Food.
Happy, bubbly child sees dog. Happy, bubbly dog sees child. Both manage to
escape their guardians and rush to meet. Everyone notices and guardians and
populace run to intervene, shouting instructions. Dog and child become
confused and scared. What happens next?
I agree with Charles..the biggest worry isn't about germs and disease. His
family has already had to deal with blood, emergency room, and stitches
after an SCA event. Thank goodness his child did not lose an eye.
Under the necessary precautions and restrictions, my dog wouldn't have any
fun at an SCA event anyway and neither would I. My cats might, though ;)
Tricia McDaniel
(owner of a most happy, loving and gentle 9 yr. old petite griffon hound)
Patricia McDaniel
tmcdaniel at sc.rr.com
-----Original Message-----
From: atlantia-bounces at atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:atlantia-bounces at atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of
atlantia-request at atlantia.sca.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:49 AM
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Atlantia Digest, Vol 44, Issue 46
Send Atlantia mailing list submissions to
atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/atlantia
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
atlantia-request at atlantia.sca.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
atlantia-owner at atlantia.sca.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Atlantia digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: War of the Wings and Marshall 101 class... (NeedleznPinz)
2. Re: Dogs at events - Rabies Certificate (Kelly Keck)
3. state laws and dog certs (Becky McEllistrem)
4. Re: Dogs at events (Rachel/Rozsa)
5. Yup, we're still talkin' 'bout pooches... (Tank Mark D)
6. War of the Wings and Marshall 101 class (Adeliza of Bristol)
7. Re: Yup, we're still talkin' 'bout pooches... (Kerri Martinsen)
8. Re: Yeah, dogs again (Beverly Robinson-Curry)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 08:31:52 -0400
From: "NeedleznPinz" <needleznpinz at charter.net>
Subject: Re: [MR] War of the Wings and Marshall 101 class...
To: "Merry Rose" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Message-ID: <GGEEIODKALJHHEGHLJCKAEKDEAAA.needleznpinz at charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I think we can facilitate that. :-)
More info in private reply.
Susanna
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 08:31:18 -0400
From: "Kelly Keck" <kellylynne at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MR] Dogs at events - Rabies Certificate
To: "Merry Rose" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Message-ID:
<747c44aa0609270531j782325c3nbc6d36a03f84dd94 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 9/26/06, CKE <celtk9equine at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> While it may not be feasible or even desirable for the
> SCA to require and check each rabies certification, it
> is still a good idea to notify event participants with
> pets that they should have the certification with
> them. I
I definitely agree with you. I wouldn't be in favor of one more thing to
check at troll, but we can certainly remind pet owners that it's their
responsibility to have that with them. That's for *their* benefit as well
as anyone else's if a dog bites someone and mundane authorities have to be
called. A simple reminder in an event flyer ought to be all that's needed.
YIS,
Adriana
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 05:36:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Becky McEllistrem <bmcellis at yahoo.com>
Subject: [MR] state laws and dog certs
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Message-ID: <20060927123615.41503.qmail at web31801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
It seems that most states have decided the dog issue
is not just a personal responsibility issue but a
state law issue. In that case knowing what the
existing state laws are and enforcing them at events
would be a sensible solution. Does anyone have a
collection of the different state laws in reference to
dog biting etc.? I would think that would be a great
tool for autocrats.
How much are rabies? certificates? If you are polite
and really don?t have the money I would be willing to
help out. I?m capable of putting my money where my
mouth is. It seems if there is an incident it would
be scarier and even more expensive not to have one on
hand but I understand the difficulty of choosing what
to do with one?s limited finances ? especially after
having been laid off twice.
When I suggested a sign-in as a way to find the owner
I suspected that the ?no brainer? part of the comment
was that in some cases the owner is clearly not at the
end of the leash. In some cases the other end of the
leash is tied to a tree or some other non human
object.
Obviously I confused several people.
Rebecca
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 08:42:01 -0400
From: "Rachel/Rozsa" <qchell at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [MR] Dogs at events
To: <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Message-ID: <008e01c6e232$550f8340$10c69904 at Chuck>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I have two basic concerns with the concept of the 'good citizen'
certification whether done by outside sources or within the SCA.
1) (A lawyer would probably have to be consulted on this.) Is the SCA
assuming some sort of responsibility/liability regarding the assuring the
safety of animals attending the event if we should start requiring that they
all have some sort of certification?
2) All animals, no matter how well behaved or well trained can get scared or
startled and easily hurt someone. A 'good dog medallion' does not prevent
that from happening and could lull people into a false sense of security
regarding the animal.
Rozsa
*********************************
www.warofthewings.com
www.ebonwoulfe.com
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 08:02:27 -0500
From: "Tank Mark D" <matank at WCNOC.com>
Subject: [MR] Yup, we're still talkin' 'bout pooches...
To: "Merry Rose Mailing List (E-mail)" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Message-ID:
<09FF514E37DA1D4CB41241808D2D1CFE013DBC98 at WC-EMAIL.wcnoc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
After nearly 50 posts, the same questions continue: Who should be
responsible for controlling a dogs behavior? What documentation should be
required?
Let's turn the first question on it's head for a moment: Who should be
responsible for controlling a HUMAN individual's behavior? First, of course,
the individual. Please consider this scenario as well: You bring a
non-SCAdian family member to an event, acting essentially as their
"sponsor", intending to maximize their positive experience, while assisting
them in avoiding any faux pas. Continue to consider your responsibility when
said individual, following feast, gets "deep into his cups" and becomes
unruly and a general nuisance. As his sponsor, you would likely feel
responsible to redirect this behavior. If you failed to do so, it is also
likely the autocrat would take action to deal with the behavior, up to and
including expulsion from the grounds.
Turn back to the behavior of dogs: Why should the "sponsors" responsibility
for the dog be any different? Why should people look the other way for an
animal's behavior when they wouldn't put up with it from a human? In the
case of an unruly animal that is causing general disturbance, the owner
should be given a short but reasonable time to get his/her animal in line,
or be asked to leave the premises immediately upon the expiration of that
time period.
Draconian? Not at all. Basic good manners and consideration for the group's
well-being should be the guideline. Yes, that could possibly mean the owner
may not return to future events, but would that necessarily be a bad thing?
Especially if they would have brought the same unruly animal. Additionally,
how many others would, as a previous post indicated, not attend future
events due to other people's "dog control issues".
Finally, as to the documentation question: Mundane law should apply. No
matter how much we may desire to remain period in our events, the Real World
does intervene. If animals were to be allowed, the autocrat could simply
state that owners need to have any available documentation "as required by
applicable state laws". This puts the responsibility squarely in the dog
owner's lap. Unless state law requires otherwise, the autocrat should not be
expected to keep copies, any more than any public access area that allows
dogs would be expected to have copies of everyone's documentation.
There's my two-pence...
Yours In Service,
Glynn-Haydn Murcheson-O'Shannon
This email is a natural, organic product. Any variations in spelling and
grammar should not be considered flaws, but enhance the overall value of the
item.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 9:14:55 -0400
From: Adeliza of Bristol <adeliza at bellsouth.net>
Subject: [MR] War of the Wings and Marshall 101 class
To: <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Message-ID:
<20060927131456.ZUGB15461.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net at mail.bellsouth.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Gentle Atlantians,
While this doesn't answer the requested Marshals' class request (sorry, not
quite qualified), if there are individuals with interest in taking the
MoL101 class, or perhaps another MoL interest class, if you would drop me a
private note I will certainly see what can be arranged to accomodate you
all. :+)
Ever yours in service,
Adeliza
THLady Adeliza of Bristol, KMoL
House Corvus/House Askoldson
Barony of Hawkwood/Kingdom of Atlantia
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 08:19:54 -0400
From: "Geffrei Maudeleyne" <Geffrei at Elchenburg.org>
Subject: Re: [MR] War of the Wings and Marshall 101 class...
To: "Merry Rose at Cheapside" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Cc: Lady Adeliza of Bristol <KMOL at Atlantia.sca.org>
Message-ID: <001501c6e22f$3e243b60$6501a8c0 at Grey>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Actually, that has been discussed. If there are enough students to make it
worth the effort, Lady Adeliza has offered to teach the MoL 101 class and a
class on MoL problem solving. She even offered to bring her won dayshade!
Therefore I would urge anyone that would like to take this opportunity to
let me know. I will compile a list and forward it to her.
The Baronial MoL and I will be running the champions' tourneys and will
certainly would accept the help of someone that wants to put in one of their
two intern sessions. I will even take someone Friday night for the
torchlight heavy tournament.
Saturday morning, I can pair a person without a warrant with one that does
have a warrant to speed along the sign-in process.
Geffrei Maudeleyne
Deputy Baronial MoL
Barony of Sacred Stone
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:17:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Kerri Martinsen <kerrimart at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [MR] Yup, we're still talkin' 'bout pooches...
To: "Merry Rose Mailing List (E-mail)" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Message-ID:
<26784781.1159363072428.JavaMail.root at mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I agree with Glynn-Haydn. Owners should be warned and then asked to leave
if their pet becomes a problem. I also own a dog and choose not to bring
her to Sapphire due to the ticks that run rampent. They are hard enough to
get off my daughter....
I have a thought. At camping events that allow pets, maybe the autocrate
can contact a couple of local kennels that would be open to boarding the
pets for the night if the pet becomes an issue. Much like a hotel list or
"ammenties" list we already see. The owner would of course take care of
arrangements and payment, but it would get them an option besides driving
home.
Too bad you can't do this with children....
Vitha
Mom of a 4 yr old daughter and a 6 yr old very quiet lab.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Tank Mark D <matank at WCNOC.com>
>
>Turn back to the behavior of dogs: Why should the "sponsors" responsibility
for the dog be any different? Why should people look the other way for an
animal's behavior when they wouldn't put up with it from a human? In the
case of an unruly animal that is causing general disturbance, the owner
should be given a short but reasonable time to get his/her animal in line,
or be asked to leave the premises immediately upon the expiration of that
time period.
>
>Draconian? Not at all. Basic good manners and consideration for the group's
well-being should be the guideline. Yes, that could possibly mean the owner
may not return to future events, but would that necessarily be a bad thing?
Especially if they would have brought the same unruly animal. Additionally,
how many others would, as a previous post indicated, not attend future
events due to other people's "dog control issues".
>
>There's my two-pence...
>
>Yours In Service,
>Glynn-Haydn Murcheson-O'Shannon
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:38:43 -0400
From: "Beverly Robinson-Curry" <brcurry at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [MR] Yeah, dogs again
To: "Atlantia Elist" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Message-ID: <008701c6e23a$41b9bd30$0a00a8c0 at HP32131241914>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Liamhain wrote:
> I do wish as a loving dog mommy, that if people do not
> like dogs that they would actually say so.
(sigh) I don't hate dogs. I actually like dogs, have owned 2 dogs and
currently have a couple of dog friends. However, I have fought dog fear
most of my life and was severely mauled by a close friend's dog several
years ago, which exacerbated the problem. Not every dog (nor certain breed)
triggers the fear, so I can't always tell when it will arise. I can pretty
much guarantee that if I'm standing near one and it begins acting
aggressive, barking or growling, even at something else, I'm going to have
that involuntary reaction.
I have repeatedly told people I was uncomfortable with their dogs only to be
told "oh, he won't hurt you" and push the dog even closer in to me. It has
been my experience that telling someone you are uncomfortable only makes
them insistent to prove to you that _their_ dog is the perfect dog. He may
very well be, but it doesn't change the fact that they've just triggered my
fear reaction, and the dog often reacts to that.
The issue I have with people not paying attention is when they are blocking
the only pathway (like hanging out chatting at troll) and leave no exit for
an uncomfortable person. Having had this issue all my life, I am quite
adept at not placing myself in locations where I might be uncomfortable. I
am also pretty good at assessing whether or not I think I can be around a
certain dog for the day. But those are decisions _I_ get to make. I don't
think it's fair for other people to make them for me.
Rhiannon
------------------------------
========================================================================
The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
Submissions: Atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subscriptions: http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/atlantia
End of Atlantia Digest, Vol 44, Issue 46
****************************************
More information about the Atlantia
mailing list