[MR] Your Women?

[Rachel/Rossa]

Unfortunately these trends of conversations tend to have men in general at a
distinct disadvantage.  Very often any similar term can be construed in a
negative connotation especially when a man,utters it, whether that was his
intention or not, and there are times no matter how hard he may try to
redeem himself, he just can't win and the hole just gets deeper.

While I am in full support of a woman's right to independence and the right
to not be considered "chattel" (I myself an a single self-supporting girl
who owns her own home) - there comes a time when we have to give it a bit of
a break and take for granted that certain sayings are simply a phrase and
don't mean anything other than what is actually being said.

If you can think back to being at Pennsic - in general we are all there as
part of a group - whether that be as broad as "The SCA" or even smaller,
such as "Kingdom", "Barony", "Canton", "Household", or "Encampment".  So in
that sense "your women" would be a fairly accurate description.  The
Kingdom's women, etc.  And from reading that post I don't feel that the
comment was directed towards men only.  I also did not get the impression
that the gentleman was in any way trying to portray women in a negative
light - but was in fact showing his concern for the "fairer" sex and urging
everyone to watch out for the women in their particular group.

So instead of making him feel bad for using a phrase that might be construed
as possibly not being *pc* by some, take the time to look at his entire
message and thank him for being kind and taking the time to help encourage
people to watch out for and protect women.

I thank you for being so kind and considerate and am pleased to know that
there are many people out there willing to escort a woman home after dark at
Pennsic. And even if there aren't any dangers to be protected from, the
company is certainly a treat!

Rozsa




**********************
I can complain because rosebushes have thorns or rejoice because the
thornbush has a rose.....  It is all up to me.
http://rozsa.diaryland.com/

There is no marvel in a woman learning to speak, but there would be in
teaching her to hold her tongue. (Elizabeth to the French Ambassador after
he had praised her linguistic skills)

http://www.elizabethi.org/us/quotes/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Houghton" <herveus at radix.net>
To: <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MR] Your Women?


> Howdy!
>
> On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 02:23:16PM -0400, Logan wrote:
> > Jaine wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm picking at something that to many will be a nit, but to me it is a
> >> significant statement.
> >>
> >> "Please, do not let your women walk unescorted after dark at Pennsic."
> >>
> >> I am not an object to be owned. I believe the phrase, "Please, do not
> >> let anyone walk unescorted after dark at Pennsic." would be less
> >> irritating to those of us who find the concept of 'ownership'
> >> distasteful. If I seek or accept escort, it is because I am making a
> >> decision about my own safety. Thank you for offering, I prefer not to
> >> do you also dislike when someone refers to you when speaking to someone
else
> >> as "one of your friends"?  it amazes me how easy it is for people to
allow
> >> themselves to be offended.  glad i dont suffer from that.
> >
> Aside from being a bit perturbed at the phrase "your women" conveying a
sense
> of ownership, Jaine also suggested that the problem is not one of *women*
> walking alone after dark, but a general "someone walking alone after dark"
> concern. It's a general safety matter, not a gender-specific thing.
>
> Speaking of "one of my friends" does not convey any sense of ownership,
but
> speaking of "one of my women" does have that subtly different connotation.
> I don't see any suggestion of "evil" intent -- just a lack of care in
choosing
> words.
>
> I, too, was a bit perturbed at that phrase, sharing Jaine's concerns.
>
> yours,
> Herveus
> --
> Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
> herveus at radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix
> Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
>                           | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
>
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