[MR] Call for Comments

[Logan]

since i was mentioned i will respond.

oddly i find that i can easily prove a popularity contest in any format that
allows teams.  i can stack a team and ensure victory in 99 out or 100 tries
(ive done so every year i have put together  a team for the 10 man at
pennsic).  single combat between two fighters under the gaze of the populace
in attendance is the only way to avoid that.  granted that does not, and
certainly has not, stopped fighters that desired a win over their own honor
from walking through a few blows but it provides more checks and balances
than anything allowing teams to compete.  be that team a two, five or fifty
man unit.

limiting the number of chiv on a  team is also weak as i can put together
teams of five chiv that cant beat teams of five unbelts.  the fighting
prowess of a knight certainly is part of what determines whether or not he
is recognized as one.  however, that prowess changes year to year.  just
because a fighter is belted does not dictate nor ensure his current level of
ability.

creating blind teams out of the available participants is also bogus as it
opens the door for one team to get blindly stacked or favoritism to
influence how hard a fighter fights against his mates.

regards
logan

ps  please understand that i personally am cool with whatever format and
whatever degrees of silliness people want to create to change the way we
decide our future monarchs.  im only trying to inject some realism into the
idea that allowing multiple parties choose who the individual is that sits
the throne is flawed in every respect.

-----Original Message-----
From: atlantia-admin at atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:atlantia-admin at atlantia.sca.org]On Behalf Of David W. James
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 9:45 PM
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [MR] Call for Comments


On Thursday, September 5, 2002, at 08:00 PM, Becky McEllistrem wrote:
> It seems to me his majesty carefully explained
> anything other than individual comment could so easily
> become a popularity contents.

> It wasn't a very old discussion.  I believe it
> happened in the last 6 months.

> Rebecca

	March or April sounds about right.  Might have been May.  If you go to
the web archive and check those months you should find it.

	His Majesty presented his opinion that some formats could become
popularity contests, but in no way proved that all non-single lists had to
be.  For example, it is hard to see how a Crown with two person teams would
be,

	Or one with 5 member teams (no more than two members of the Chivalry per
team) until there there are only 2/3/4 teams left, then the Captain's of
the teams fight single combat to decide the winner.

	Or... well, you get the idea.  There are lots of potential formats that
don't share the 'popularity contest' flaw.  Lots of them that do too.  But
then there are some great (not to mention less obviously modern) formats
besides double-elim for single combat too, but that's what is written into
Kingdom law.

	The Board is requesting commentary on this proposal.  Please consider it
and give them your thoughts.  There was considerable agitation at the table
(both officers and Board members) to make the change they proposed last
time (only single combat allowed in Crown lists.)  It was the commentary
that they received that caused the Board to *not* implement that change as
worded.  It was pointed out at the meeting that this variation addressed
many of the concerns while leaving some avenue for experimentation and
research.

	Personally, I suspect that A) it will not be used very often (look at
how many times we've had them to date, and it has been legal all this time)
  and B) such a request's chance of getting approved by the Board is only
slightly better than the proverbial snowball's.  Very slightly.

David/Kwellend-Njal

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