[MR] Tangent: was: Why should Atlantia care was: Re:Curiosity

[Christine Cooper]

Greetings!

Well, it seems rather obvious that whatever form of combat we decide will make a monarch, THAT will be the most-watched combat.  Schlager fighting is, indeed, exciting to watch.  It is extremely fast-paced and tends to be more dramatic than heavy combat.  (The latter attribute may be due to the fact that there is no crown on the line.  The rapier fighters add their own drama when circumstances do not.)  The level of athleticism required for each form of combat is remarkable.  My own experiences with them (blessedly brief but epic in the telling) have taught me great respect for the combatants' strength, endurance, and agility.  To say that rapier combat is to heavy as tofu is to steak does a great disservice to the rapier community.  Are rapier fighters soft and bland while heavy fighters are robust and full of flavor?  The obvious pejorative connotations aside, it is, at best, a weak analogy created, perhaps, by ego and familiarity.

Perhaps a closer analogy would be couched in athletic terms.  Say, if you must, that rapier is to heavy as ice hockey is to football.  Then, sir, I will concede the point that these are two different activities.  However, I would ask you to concede the point that they require many of the same skills.  Oh, certainly, I could put on the heavy armor, heft a shield and sword, and get my helm dented for my troubles.  To be a GOOD heavy fighter I would need far more strength, stamina, and agility than I currently have and I would have to learn how to throw shots, block, and maneuver.  By the same token, I could don a mask, brandish a blade, and proceed to be bruised with surgical precision.  To be a GOOD rapier fighter I would need far more .... (see above.)  Same skills, in varying degrees and combinations.  Rapier combat IS fighting.

Finally, sir, your response absolutely reeked of condescension.  "Small or otherwise physically challenged"?  First, I wasn't aware that there were size requirements.  ("You must be this tall to wear this crown.")  Second, I didn't realize that rapier was a bone thrown out to all the little people who just couldn't hack it (no pun intended) with heavy fighting.  Are rapier fighters, therefore, handicapped?  In a way, yes, they are since their form of combat is given such little consideration.  Although they train every bit as hard, sweat as much, and embrace their sport with all the passion of heavy fighters, they are still thought of as somehow inferior.  (Goodness!  I can only imagine with what disdain we sewing needle-wielders are viewed.  :-)

I am not advocating a "rapier king" here.  That is a discussion for another time.  I simply wish that all skilled SCAdians be given the proper respect for their crafts.  Prowess, in fighting, sewing, brewing, dancing, etc., should be recognized and respected.

Just my two coppers (and thousand words)

Cristofana di Lorenzo

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Thorgrimm at aol.com <Thorgrimm at aol.com>
    To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
    Date: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 9:16 AM
    Subject: Re: [MR] Tangent: was: Why should Atlantia care was: Re:Curiosity
    
    
    In a message dated 2/6/02 8:53:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, BWilliamson at extstay.com writes: 
    
    
    
        don't 
        knock it until you've tried it
    
    
      I have tried it. I was one of the many well meaning folks six or seven years ago who were pushing fencing as a good alternative for people who couldn't fight. I saw it as a way for small or otherwise physically challenged people to get a taste of what it's like for us on the field. But comparing it to fighting is to compare tofu to steak. 
     It never occurred to me that people would decide to do it instead of fighting and then try to convince people it's on the same level. The fact that so many people think there should be a "rapier king" or that there should be a special peerage created just proves that the whole thing has gotten out of hand. 
      The SCA structure is based on armored combat. I don't think we can continue to attempt the support of two martial styles. I believe it is at the root of a lot of our recruitment problems because it sends out vastly differing images to someone on the outside looking in. You have on the one hand the chivalry and glory of combat, the knight in armor that is at the base of everyone's vision of the middle ages, and on the other a game of tag being played with 19th and 20th Century accouterments. 
      The only period duels I have been able to document were fought in armor with legitimate weapons. The majority of the manuals which are cited as proving that fencing is period use broadswords, great swords, and a technique that would require more armor than we use. 
       I agree that schlager is a far more reasonable replication of a period weapon. Unfortunately, you can't use it the way it's meant to be used with the current fencing armor standards. But I'll argue with you about the audience. Whenever I've seen fencing and fighting simultaneously occurring near each other, the vast majority of people in the crowd are watching the fighting. Regardless of how you try to convince yourself otherwise, fighting is more exciting to watch. It might please you to think that folks are watching your exploits with rapt attention, but it usually isn't the case. 
    
    Hrothgar 
    
    
       
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