[MR] re: Value of membership (long post) (fwd)

[Craig Levin]

Before I begin, I'd like to apologize for having said that the
BoD had stonewalled the GC. I misread what Kwellend-Njal said.

Luce:

> My 2 farthings:
> 
> 1) We seem to be turning the non-member surcharge issue into yet another
> discussion of "who is the BOD and what the heck gives them the right to tell
> us what to do?" 

Oh, I'm well aware of how the game and how the corporation
started. I worked very closely with Jaelle when she was Laurel.
The history of our hobby interests me as much as that of the real
Middle Ages.

> Well, you like this game called the SCA, don't you?

Yes-but I also don't see the way it's set up today as optimal.

> You
> like going to events.  You like fighting or sewing or cooking or whatever it
> is you do.  You like Pennsic.  You like the fact that the SCA is as big and
> popular as it is.  You like the awards, the titles, the heraldry.  You like
> the fact that you can play at whatever level of authenticity you play at.

Oh, sure. But I don't see the current state of affairs as the
only one that can exist, and still keep the game going strong.

> If you didn't, you'd probably be a Marklander or confining your "costume
> party" activities to the local Renn Faire.  (This is not a slam on Markland
> or Renn Faires.  My point is that each group plays its own game.  Each one
> is different, and the people that play the game they choose do so because
> they like it, plain and simple.)

Er...I *am* a Marklander, as well as a SCAdian. But yes, the 2
games aren't identical twins-more like fraternal twins.

> Let's posit a world without the BOD, without a national corporation.  Let's
> take a look at how our game might change:
> 
> -- Assuming that each SCA Kingdom chose to stay in its present form, and to
> play with the other SCA Kingdoms, each would have to maintain an
> organizational structure that established it as a 501 (c) (3) corporation.
> That would entail each kingdom to have its own BOD. (Corporations under law
> MUST have a Board of some kind.  It's the law.)  It would have to have a
> separate corporate identity, and someone would have to be designated to
> receive all notices on behalf of the corporation.  That same person would
> have to be responsible for maintaining all corporate filings with the states
> in which we operated, and with the federal government.  That person would
> have to have an office, and the address for that office would have to be on
> file with all the states we operated in.  If the Kingdom were sued, that
> person would be the one to take service of the legal papers.  That person
> would have to hire and manage legal counsel, accountants, etc.

Not necessarily. I could see reincorporation as 501(c)7's
(recreational clubs) as being somewhat more appropriate to our
hobby. However, smaller groups, of whatever nature they my be
would be less vulnerable to a suit, and probably more responsive
to regional conditions.

> --  Each time you went to a different kingdom, you would have to worry about
> authorizing in that kingdom (much in the way Angelssey and Markland and
> other groups have to authorize in the SCA before they fight at our events).
> No, Atlantia could not simply say that if you are authorized in Ansteorra or
> wherever you are authorized here -- our insurance company would not cover
> that.  

Are you sure? IANAL myself-I just work in a law library. 

> And yes, we would need insurance, even if it were swiss-cheese
> insurance.  Try renting a campground to host events like ours without it.
> You won't get far, I assure you.  Oh, and in case you think insurance is
> cheap, remember that the larger the group the cheaper the policy.  It's how
> actuarial tables work.  A policy for Atlantia alone would be more expensive
> than the one Militpas has, not less.

Hum. I note that Markland, playing a very similar game to ours,
plus live steel, charges individual members $25 per annum, and
can also offer personal accident insurance at an additional $4.50
per annum. They're not as big as the Known World.

> --  You are now a group with one Kingdom and therefore one King (or Queen).
> Atlantian Law would now be the final word on everything.  We for the most
> part are royalists in Atlantia (I count myself one), but I think most of us
> like the idea that a King's power over Atlantian Law is curttailed by
> Corpora. And because each Kingdom would now have different Corpora, your
> awards would not necessarily be recognized in other kingdoms.  True, the
> Kingdoms are permitted to make awards of their own already, but what of the
> peerages?  Every kingdom would have to agree to accept every other kingdom's
> peerages for you to be really and truly recognized nationwide.  How long do
> you think it would be before one kingdom decided that it simply didn't want
> to think of you as a peer unless one of their kings gave you your peerage?

Ask any White Scarf how he/she has to feel in Calontir or the
West, then.

> How long after that would all the others follow suit?  Yes, we like to
> 
>  -- a local corporation, with a BOD, who would have to take on all the
> responsibilities of the national BOD.  My guess is that people would still
> be grousing about the BOD in the same way we do now.  We might even grouse
> about it worse becasue we would know the people better and our personal
> feelings about them might get in the way of an objective view of their
> decisions.

Assuming that it's still a BoD that's unelected by the members.
Also, one notes, Markland's a 501(c)3, and the members are the
folks with the votes for the officers and the executive power.

> -- we would still need insurance, office space, staff and the other things,
> and we'd have less resources available to maintain them.

Or be able to land the same deal as other organizations. I note
that Acre, which is mainly in the NE, and Markland, charge about
$25 per annum. 

> -- It would be harder for our members to "live the dream" the way they do
> now.  If my job transfered me to Phoenix I might not be able to use my arms,
> might not be recognized as a member of the nobility.  For me this poses
> little inconvenience, but I would hate to see an accomplished and
> well-recognized individual from our Kingdom have to "strart over" in this
> game merely because they got transferred.  If I wanted to fight at Pennsic,
> I would have to make sure I was fully authorized to fight in AEthelmarc
> first.  My Atlantian authorization wouldn't track.  Are these insurmountable
> obstacles?  No.  But why impose them when we gain nothing from it?

Actually, there were period solutions to heraldic issues of that
sort, which could certainly be put into operation. The head
heraldic honcho of the Adrian Empire, which is another group
playing a similar game to the SCA's, has fruitful discussions
with SCA heralds.

Mundane nations and international orders recognize knighthoods across
borders of both politics and creed (see for example, the accord
between the Lutheran, Episcopalian, and Roman Catholic Knights
Hospitaller).

> Bottom line:  You may not like Militpas and the SCA BOD, but getting rid of
> them creates more problems than it solves.  There is perhaps something to be
> said for reforming the way the BOD is selected or the procedures for BOD
> resolutions, but getting rid of the BOD or the national office is not a
> realistic option.

One example of a less centralized system that I like is Duke
Cariadoc's. He's laid it out at:

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Board_Flap.html

You can also find several fascinating posts there from when the
corporation put the idea forward last time, in 1993.

<snip>

> Sorry this was so long.

Not at all, my lady. Please permit me to address your second
point in another posting, so that people's mail readers won't gak.

Pedro

-- 
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clevin at rci.ripco.com
Craig Levin				Librarians Rule: Oook!