[Archers] "Those Crossbows" - was: Re: Archers Digest, Vol 119, Issue 15

[barysears]

Master Siegfried - a great explanation but . . . I really like the 
simplicity of Atlantian rules.

barre

On 8/9/2013 1:05 PM, Siegfried wrote:
> Just to fill in newer archers/marshals on this list, who may not know
> the history of these crossbows (a few in particular) ... and their
> legal/illegal status.
>
> I was Kingdom Archery Marshal, when the first 'showdown' about these
> happened at Pennsic, and I was there with the Society Archery Marshal as
> it happened.
>
> So, 'the rule' in question from the Society rules (Note that this is a
> society issue, not an Atlantian one, since we have more restrictive
> rules)....
>
> Just states this:
> "No non-period center-shot trackless crossbow styles are allowed."
>
> So first, to clarify a few things (for both Atlantia and SCA level)
>
> 1. Split prods are allowed.  Nothing is intrinsically wrong with a split
> prod crossbow, just like we allow split-limb recurves.  Goose/Gander
> there (But, wait for it... split-limb does not always equal center-shot,
> but can ... because you can have split limbs, but mount them like a
> 'normal' period crossbow.
>
> 2. Center-shot, and Trackless crossbows ... ARE ALLOWED ... if they are
> of a period design.   A good example of this are the 16th century Stone
> Bow style crossbows.  That have no track, but a big 'swoop' in their
> belly cut out instead.   Just not modern trackless crossbows.
>
> 3. There is no restriction, in either Society or Atlantian rules ...
> about having a string that 'floats' a bit above the track.  There are
> period crossbows that do this.  It's just how the prod is mounted.  And
> it actually causes a number of problems for the crossbow, versus the
> 'slight' lack of friction benefits it gives.  Really, as a crossbow
> maker, it's not worth it :)
>
> ... So what is banned at SCA? ...
>
> a. non-period Center-shot crossbows.   These are crossbows design either
> with a split prod, separated with a gap, so that the bolt passes
> visually 'through the prod' (if it would be a solid prod).  Or (and yes,
> I've seen this) ... a crossbow with a HOLE cut in it's prod, for the
> bolt to pass through.
>
> b. non-period trackless crossbows.  Yes, there are period ones.  But
> there are lots of modern ones.   Where there is no 'track' or 'shelf'
> that the bolt rides upon.  Instead, the bolt is placed in a capture
> mechanism in the front, and hooks onto the string in the back only by a
> snap nock.  There is nothing that the bolt 'rides on'.
>
> ... So what's up with the crossbows at Pennsic? ...
>
> First of all, they are completely modern in appearance.  Which we have
> banned in Atlantia.
>
> But, the 'illegal' nature of them, is specifically the 'center-shot'
> aspect.  They are designed with a split prod that allows the bolt to
> ride between the prods.   IE, draw a line between the prods, and the
> bolt path is intersected by it.
>
> However, here is the catch.  It has been 'determined' by the Marshallate
> of the East Kingdom, that their interpretation of the 'center-shot'
> rule.  Is that it only applies to crossbows that are truly 'dead center'
> shot.  The crossbow was actually banned at one pennsic, by the Society
> Marshal, because of that.
>
> The next year, the crossbow returned, and they had modified it, so that
> the bolt passed something like 0.25 cm higher then dead-center.  (But
> still through the 'plane of the prod'.   And it basically was stated,
> that the East Marshallate was going to allow this, until/if the SCA
> changed it's rules to clarify 'center-shot' better.
>
> The SCA hasn't updated target archery rules, in 10 years, so it hasn't
> been changed.
>
> Siegfried
>
>
>
> On 8/7/13 12:43 PM, Jamie Frailey wrote:
>> I think Jonathas summed it up perfectly. I would like to say there is
>> One or Two individulas that are using illegal crossbows at Pennsic and
>> they should not be allowed to use them. The Society says no center cut
>> prods. I believe these crossbows are two peice prods and are center cut
>> as well. Every where else in marshall activity strict guidelines are
>> followed and if you are using a weapon that is not allowed at the
>> Society level you can't use them. Just saying.
>>
>> Seamus
>>