[Archers] "Those Crossbows" - was: Re: Archers Digest, Vol 119, Issue 15

[Siegfried]

Just to fill in newer archers/marshals on this list, who may not know
the history of these crossbows (a few in particular) ... and their
legal/illegal status.

I was Kingdom Archery Marshal, when the first 'showdown' about these
happened at Pennsic, and I was there with the Society Archery Marshal as
it happened.

So, 'the rule' in question from the Society rules (Note that this is a
society issue, not an Atlantian one, since we have more restrictive
rules)....

Just states this:
"No non-period center-shot trackless crossbow styles are allowed."

So first, to clarify a few things (for both Atlantia and SCA level)

1. Split prods are allowed.  Nothing is intrinsically wrong with a split
prod crossbow, just like we allow split-limb recurves.  Goose/Gander
there (But, wait for it... split-limb does not always equal center-shot,
but can ... because you can have split limbs, but mount them like a
'normal' period crossbow.

2. Center-shot, and Trackless crossbows ... ARE ALLOWED ... if they are
of a period design.   A good example of this are the 16th century Stone
Bow style crossbows.  That have no track, but a big 'swoop' in their
belly cut out instead.   Just not modern trackless crossbows.

3. There is no restriction, in either Society or Atlantian rules ...
about having a string that 'floats' a bit above the track.  There are
period crossbows that do this.  It's just how the prod is mounted.  And
it actually causes a number of problems for the crossbow, versus the
'slight' lack of friction benefits it gives.  Really, as a crossbow
maker, it's not worth it :)

... So what is banned at SCA? ...

a. non-period Center-shot crossbows.   These are crossbows design either
with a split prod, separated with a gap, so that the bolt passes
visually 'through the prod' (if it would be a solid prod).  Or (and yes,
I've seen this) ... a crossbow with a HOLE cut in it's prod, for the
bolt to pass through.

b. non-period trackless crossbows.  Yes, there are period ones.  But
there are lots of modern ones.   Where there is no 'track' or 'shelf'
that the bolt rides upon.  Instead, the bolt is placed in a capture
mechanism in the front, and hooks onto the string in the back only by a
snap nock.  There is nothing that the bolt 'rides on'.

... So what's up with the crossbows at Pennsic? ...

First of all, they are completely modern in appearance.  Which we have
banned in Atlantia.

But, the 'illegal' nature of them, is specifically the 'center-shot'
aspect.  They are designed with a split prod that allows the bolt to
ride between the prods.   IE, draw a line between the prods, and the
bolt path is intersected by it.

However, here is the catch.  It has been 'determined' by the Marshallate
of the East Kingdom, that their interpretation of the 'center-shot'
rule.  Is that it only applies to crossbows that are truly 'dead center'
shot.  The crossbow was actually banned at one pennsic, by the Society
Marshal, because of that.

The next year, the crossbow returned, and they had modified it, so that
the bolt passed something like 0.25 cm higher then dead-center.  (But
still through the 'plane of the prod'.   And it basically was stated,
that the East Marshallate was going to allow this, until/if the SCA
changed it's rules to clarify 'center-shot' better.

The SCA hasn't updated target archery rules, in 10 years, so it hasn't
been changed.

Siegfried



On 8/7/13 12:43 PM, Jamie Frailey wrote:
> I think Jonathas summed it up perfectly. I would like to say there is
> One or Two individulas that are using illegal crossbows at Pennsic and
> they should not be allowed to use them. The Society says no center cut
> prods. I believe these crossbows are two peice prods and are center cut
> as well. Every where else in marshall activity strict guidelines are
> followed and if you are using a weapon that is not allowed at the
> Society level you can't use them. Just saying.
> 
> Seamus
> 

-- 
Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/