[Archers] Atl-atl discussion and rules

John Atkins cogworks at triad.rr.com
Tue Aug 6 14:07:38 PDT 2013 

This causes pause for thought.................doesn't take long when one has a feeble mind!  How about using the standard RR target face for simplicity of set up and range management sake but change the scoring thusly - normal RR 5 & 4 = atlatl 5,  RR 3 & 2 = atlatl 3, RR 1 or any hit on the paper =atlatl 1.  Thus the scoring is 5, 3, or 1.  This way the scoring takes into account the current state of inaccuracy of throwing.  Any hit to the butt but off the paper/target, no points.

Cog for Unk

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 6, 2013, at 12:43 PM, jaynardone at comcast.net wrote:

> Eirik, very good points and I really dont have a dog in this fight. Im just hoping that everyone keeps in mind that Atlatl is not as accurate as archery is and putting those same limitations on everyone from the start troubles me. If the community feels it is the way to go, I will consider it and we can move on. I am seeing increased Atlatl involvement at many archery events and even those I consider seasoned throwers have problems hitting a RR target at 20 yards.
> 
>  
> 
> This all seems a bit pointless to me if the scores to submit for 80% of the throwers are going to be 0's....
> 
>  
> 
> Just thinking out loud here...
> 
>  
> 
> Janyn
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> From: "Michael" <michaelstuart at gmail.com>
> To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 10:57:51 PM
> Subject: [Archers] Atl-atl discussion and rules
> 
> 
> I agree that the other conclusions (same scoring and 6 darts per end) make a lot of sense, but I worry that we just won't have RRs being thrown if we have to order different/special targets and set up additional butts for them to happen.
> 
> I participated in 2 of the 3 atl-atl battles at Pennsic, and have been in at least a couple at local events as well. In every case we're aiming at a bale of hay, which is noticeably smaller than a 90cm target. Because of this, and thinking toward the marshal's ease in setting up a range, I would favor using the same 60cm targets (and perhaps even the same target butts) that we use for the archery royal round. Most of the darts I see in use have the same field points as our arrows do, and do not appear to harm targets any more than arrows will--especially so since for most of us, there will be fairly few darts actually hitting the target, no matter its size.
> 
> In my experience so far, the atl-atl rate of fire is closer to that of a crossbow than a hand bow, and based on that I'm not sure that a speed round would pose any problem. It's getting the dart's socket seated on the pointed part of the stick that is the slowest part of the process, and there's no point in going on to throw it if it's not properly seated. If there are other safety concerns I'm missing here, someone please let me know. Wild (in terms of side to side) throws seem to pose the greatest potential atl-atl hazard, whether timed or untimed, but I think our ample archery safety zones are sufficient to cover this issue even if there were a speed round. 
> 
> In sum, I think keeping the atl-atl royal round the same as the archery royal round in as many ways as possible will be the strategy most likely to make them happen.
> 
> in service,
> 
> Eirik Gralokkr
> 
>  
>> Subject: Re: [Archers] ATLatl discussion and rules completion
>> 
>> Okay thank you all for the input, so far this is what we are agreeing upon:
>> 
>> 1.       Use of the bigger FITA target for RR.
>> 
>> 2.       6 darts per end.
>> 
>> 3.       Range will be same distances as Archery RR 20,30 and 40 yards, no
>> timed ends due to safety concerns
>> 
>> 4.       Scoring will be same as archery 5,4,3,2,1
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> We'll continue the discussion until the 23rd if need be, if anyone else has
>> comments please let us know.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I thank you all for taking the time to write with  your comments.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In Service,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Janyn
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> [mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Jay Nardone
>> Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 1:08 PM
>> To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> Subject: [Archers] ATLatl discussion and rules completion
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Good afternoon everyone, I want to start working off the items I sent out
>> last week from my "to do" list. So the first up is the completion of the
>> ATLATL rules for Royal Rounds. I went back through all of our discussions
>> last year and this is the gist of what I took away from it.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 1.       Use of the bigger FITA (90m)  target as the Royal Round target.
>> 
>> 2.       6 Darts per end
>> 
>> 3.       Range will be same as the archery to allow both being shot/thrown
>> at once on adjacent ranges if need be (20 yards, 20 yards timed, 30 yards,
>> 40 yards)
>> 
>> 4.       Scoring will be 10,9,8,7,6 ? Gold,red,blue,black,white?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> My take is that yes the scores will be lower than archery, who cares? We
>> need to start somewhere and I think keeping the yardages the same with the
>> bigger target will accommodate this. I have seen many who are decent with
>> Atlatl throw them 40 yards or so and look how hard 40 yards is for most
>> archers.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Am I missing something? I don't want to start this discussion from scratch
>> but I want to complete this discussion so if you have comments or concerns
>> please lets discuss. I would like to close this topic and move on by 23
>> August.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In Service,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Janyn
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 20:26:04 -0400
>> From: deedee Mail <deallac at juno.com>
>> To: Janyn Fletcher <janynfletcher at comcast.net>,
>>         archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> Subject: Re: [Archers] ATLatl discussion and rules completion
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>> 
>> It's been a while since I saw/used a 90m (122cm) target.  How many bales
>> or what other type of backings have people used for these?  Just guessing
>> that for bales, we would need a 2 wide base, and at least 4 high?  This leads to
>> the question, do we need to specify a range of height for the target center, or will
>> the target base be at ground level?
>> 
>> Dealla
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Aug 5, 2013, at 7:53 PM, "Janyn Fletcher" <janynfletcher at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> > Okay thank you all for the input, so far this is what we are agreeing upon:
>> >
>> > 1.       Use of the bigger FITA target for RR.
>> > 2.       6 darts per end.
>> > 3.       Range will be same distances as Archery RR 20,30 and 40 yards, no timed ends due to safety concerns
>> > 4.       Scoring will be same as archery 5,4,3,2,1
>> >
>> > We?ll continue the discussion until the 23rd if need be, if anyone else has comments please let us know.
>> >
>> > I thank you all for taking the time to write with  your comments.
>> >
>> > In Service,
>> >
>> > Janyn
>> >
>> >
>> > From: archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org [mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Jay Nardone
>> > Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 1:08 PM
>> > To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> > Subject: [Archers] ATLatl discussion and rules completion
>> >
>> > Good afternoon everyone, I want to start working off the items I sent out last week from my ?to do? list. So the first up is the completion of the ATLATL rules for Royal Rounds. I went back through all of our discussions last year and this is the gist of what I took away from it.
>> >
>> > 1.       Use of the bigger FITA (90m)  target as the Royal Round target.
>> > 2.       6 Darts per end
>> > 3.       Range will be same as the archery to allow both being shot/thrown at once on adjacent ranges if need be (20 yards, 20 yards timed, 30 yards, 40 yards)
>> > 4.       Scoring will be 10,9,8,7,6 ? Gold,red,blue,black,white?
>> >
>> > My take is that yes the scores will be lower than archery, who cares? We need to start somewhere and I think keeping the yardages the same with the bigger target will accommodate this. I have seen many who are decent with Atlatl throw them 40 yards or so and look how hard 40 yards is for most archers.
>> >
>> > Am I missing something? I don?t want to start this discussion from scratch but I want to complete this discussion so if you have comments or concerns please lets discuss. I would like to close this topic and move on by 23 August.
>> >
>> > In Service,
>> >
>> > Janyn
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Archers mailing list
>> > Archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> > http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org
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