[Archers] Atl-atl discussion and rules

Tue Aug 6 12:30:52 PDT 2013

Being one of those 'seasoned throwers', I really do feel that we should go with the larger target faces.   An 80cm target face (thanks, Siegfried) should be fine.  Having shot at a 120cm target, I can tell you, it's huge, and people might have trouble accommodating it.  It'd be a whole lot easier to hit, certainly, but is that really the purpose of a RR?Continuity with the archery rules is convenient, but doesn't have to be 100%.  No timed rounds, and an 80cm face should be all the changes we need to be safe, yet provide a fun and challenging opportunity for people.
Reyne

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 16:43:35 +0000
From: jaynardone at comcast.net
To: michaelstuart at gmail.com
CC: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [Archers] Atl-atl discussion and rules

Eirik, very good points and I really dont have a dog in this fight. Im just hoping that everyone keeps in mind that Atlatl is not as accurate as archery is and putting those same limitations on everyone from the start troubles me. If the community feels it is the way to go, I will consider it and we can move on. I am seeing increased Atlatl involvement at many archery events and even those I consider seasoned throwers have problems hitting a RR target at 20 yards. 

This all seems a bit pointless to me if the scores to submit for 80% of the throwers are going to be 0's....

Just thinking out loud here...

Janyn

From: "Michael" <michaelstuart at gmail.com>
To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 10:57:51 PM
Subject: [Archers] Atl-atl discussion and rules

I agree that the other conclusions (same scoring and 6 darts per end) make a lot of sense, but I worry that we just won't have RRs being thrown if we have to order different/special targets and set up additional butts for them to happen.

I participated in 2 of the 3 atl-atl battles at Pennsic, and have been in at least a couple at local events as well. In every case we're aiming at a bale of hay, which is noticeably smaller than a 90cm target. Because of this, and thinking toward the marshal's ease in setting up a range, I would favor using the same 60cm targets (and perhaps even the same target butts) that we use for the archery royal round. Most of the darts I see in use have the same field points as our arrows do, and do not appear to harm targets any more than arrows will--especially so since for most of us, there will be fairly few darts actually hitting the target, no matter its size.

In my experience so far, the atl-atl rate of fire is closer to that of a crossbow than a hand bow, and based on that I'm not sure that a speed round would pose any problem. It's getting the dart's socket seated on the pointed part of the stick that is the slowest part of the process, and there's no point in going on to throw it if it's not properly seated. If there are other safety concerns I'm missing here, someone please let me know. Wild (in terms of side to side) throws seem to pose the greatest potential atl-atl hazard, whether timed or untimed, but I think our ample archery safety zones are sufficient to cover this issue even if there were a speed round. 

In sum, I think keeping the atl-atl royal round the same as the archery royal round in as many ways as possible will be the strategy most likely to make them happen.

in service,

Eirik Gralokkr

Subject: Re: [Archers] ATLatl discussion and rules completion

Okay thank you all for the input, so far this is what we are agreeing upon:

1.       Use of the bigger FITA target for RR.

2.       6 darts per end.

3.       Range will be same distances as Archery RR 20,30 and 40 yards, no
timed ends due to safety concerns

4.       Scoring will be same as archery 5,4,3,2,1

We'll continue the discussion until the 23rd if need be, if anyone else has
comments please let us know.

I thank you all for taking the time to write with  your comments.

In Service,

Janyn

From: archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Jay Nardone
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 1:08 PM
To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Subject: [Archers] ATLatl discussion and rules completion

Good afternoon everyone, I want to start working off the items I sent out
last week from my "to do" list. So the first up is the completion of the
ATLATL rules for Royal Rounds. I went back through all of our discussions
last year and this is the gist of what I took away from it.

1.       Use of the bigger FITA (90m)  target as the Royal Round target.

2.       6 Darts per end

3.       Range will be same as the archery to allow both being shot/thrown
at once on adjacent ranges if need be (20 yards, 20 yards timed, 30 yards,
40 yards)

4.       Scoring will be 10,9,8,7,6 ? Gold,red,blue,black,white?

My take is that yes the scores will be lower than archery, who cares? We
need to start somewhere and I think keeping the yardages the same with the
bigger target will accommodate this. I have seen many who are decent with
Atlatl throw them 40 yards or so and look how hard 40 yards is for most
archers.

Am I missing something? I don't want to start this discussion from scratch
but I want to complete this discussion so if you have comments or concerns
please lets discuss. I would like to close this topic and move on by 23
August.

In Service,

Janyn

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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 20:26:04 -0400
From: deedee Mail <deallac at juno.com>
To: Janyn Fletcher <janynfletcher at comcast.net>,
        archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [Archers] ATLatl discussion and rules completion
Message-ID: <92723267-B499-46EA-A524-EEBA664649CD at juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

It's been a while since I saw/used a 90m (122cm) target.  How many bales
or what other type of backings have people used for these?  Just guessing
that for bales, we would need a 2 wide base, and at least 4 high?  This leads to
the question, do we need to specify a range of height for the target center, or will
the target base be at ground level?

Dealla

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 5, 2013, at 7:53 PM, "Janyn Fletcher" <janynfletcher at comcast.net> wrote:

> Okay thank you all for the input, so far this is what we are agreeing upon:
>
> 1.       Use of the bigger FITA target for RR.
> 2.       6 darts per end.
> 3.       Range will be same distances as Archery RR 20,30 and 40 yards, no timed ends due to safety concerns
> 4.       Scoring will be same as archery 5,4,3,2,1
>
> We?ll continue the discussion until the 23rd if need be, if anyone else has comments please let us know.
>
> I thank you all for taking the time to write with  your comments.
>
> In Service,
>
> Janyn
>
>
> From: archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org [mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Jay Nardone
> Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 1:08 PM
> To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: [Archers] ATLatl discussion and rules completion
>
> Good afternoon everyone, I want to start working off the items I sent out last week from my ?to do? list. So the first up is the completion of the ATLATL rules for Royal Rounds. I went back through all of our discussions last year and this is the gist of what I took away from it.
>
> 1.       Use of the bigger FITA (90m)  target as the Royal Round target.
> 2.       6 Darts per end
> 3.       Range will be same as the archery to allow both being shot/thrown at once on adjacent ranges if need be (20 yards, 20 yards timed, 30 yards, 40 yards)
> 4.       Scoring will be 10,9,8,7,6 ? Gold,red,blue,black,white?
>
> My take is that yes the scores will be lower than archery, who cares? We need to start somewhere and I think keeping the yardages the same with the bigger target will accommodate this. I have seen many who are decent with Atlatl throw them 40 yards or so and look how hard 40 yards is for most archers.
>
> Am I missing something? I don?t want to start this discussion from scratch but I want to complete this discussion so if you have comments or concerns please lets discuss. I would like to close this topic and move on by 23 August.
>
> In Service,
>
> Janyn
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Archers mailing list
> Archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/archers-atlantia.sca.org
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