[Archers] Fw: Fw: From the SCA-Announcement list

Thu Mar 8 21:26:58 PST 2012

Fen,

Here is Sir Jon's comment.

I was and am a squire. It has helped me greatly to understand how to be a peer. But it has not helped me in elevation to any peerage (as far as I know).

Charles O'Connor

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: John Edgerton <sirjon1 at pacbell.net>
To: J. Hughes <jphughessr at yahoo.com> 
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Archers] Fw:  From the SCA-Announcement list

The following is my opinion. 

Well for starters the SCA Census showed  that of those members of the Chivalry that answered the census, 59% said that non armored in general should not be recognized.  And when it came to a combined target and combat archery peerage recognition, 93% were against its inclusion in the OC. 

I believe that the OC is where all the other martial activities really belong.  However, that would only work if they had been included there from the beginning, that is not the case. There have been too many years of tradition and practice to the contrary. 

Then there is what I have heard from other members of the OC, some of which just about have apoplexy when the words archers and knighthood or Sir are mentioned in the same sentence.  There
 would of course be a few that might consider the idea of taking archers as squires. However, they would be given an extremely hard time by a very vocal segment of the order. Archers might be accepted as squires to learn and do heavy rattan combat in addition to their archery.  There have been cases of some fighters being told by Knights that if they ever touched a bow in combat, they could abandon all hope of ever becoming a knight in that kingdom. There is slightly less resistance to the idea of archers being called masters in a separate order.

The idea of creating any type of peerage recognition for archers that included addressing a member as Sir or Knight has the proverbial chance of a snowball in Hell for the foreseeable future. 

On an other note.  The use of triggers on crossbows versus levers.  I have found many references to them being used from 1500 on. But, I seem to remember a source that said from 1450, or so,
 that I can not again locate.  Can you give me any sources for that?  

Thanks

Jon

________________________________
From: J. Hughes <jphughessr at yahoo.com>
To: John Edgerton <sirjon1 at pacbell.net>
Sent: Thu, March 8, 2012 2:29:43 PM
Subject: Fw: [Archers] Fw:  From the SCA-Announcement list

Good Sir,

I mentioned you in a conversation on the Atlantian archery list and was ask to inquire on your opinion.

Charles O'Connor

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "fenrisulven at comcast.net" <fenrisulven at comcast.net>
To: J. Hughes <jphughessr at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Antlanian <archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Archers] Fw:  From the SCA-Announcement list

I think the only possible way for archers to gain a martial peerage is for the Chivalry to squire us. Kind of a buy-in for them to ensure we uphold their traditions and values. 

I also think its highly unlikely, but I'm curious what their thought process is.  Could you ask Sir Jon what he thinks?  Then shoot me a private email? 

Cheers 
Fen 

"Atlantian Archery. Nothing exists within 100 yards without our permission." 

________________________________

From: "J. Hughes" <jphughessr at yahoo.com>
To: "Antlanian" <archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 11:57:04 AM
Subject: [Archers] Fw:  From the SCA-Announcement list

"I strongly feel that there should be a lot more Laurels and Pelicans in archery, but it does apeal to me that the chivalry be open to accepting Knights of the Bow..." 

"...Last night I had a long and interesting conversation with Sir Jon about the nobles' use of archery in war. I was pointing out examples of noble use of archery in war that he had not cited in his work." 

Charles O'Connor  
Old used archer, laurel, and pelican 

________________________________
From: John Atkins <cogworks at triad.rr.com>
To: Archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org 
Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Archers] From the SCA-Announcement list

Fen, 
Point well taken.  As a former Trimarian I lurk on their archery list and do what I can to promote their archery from afar.  To follow on your comments below, Trimaris is just starting target archery.  Not entirely correct, it has been around for many years thanks to Sir Erika but the numbers of participants comes nowhere close to an Atlantian event.  But due to my contacts and strong urging Trimaris now does a TAD, Trimarian Archery Day.  (I take no credit for this other than the strong urging.  It was the work of the Trimarian Rangers, as they call their marshals.)  So Fen’s point is well taken.  It is then up to us, the Atlantian Demons of Archery (ADA?  I thought that was a programming language…….), to infect the rest of the known world and bring archery throughout the known world to the state that it  exists within Atlantian and the East.  I have found simply attending shoots and talking with folks, sharing information as Fen relates
 below, encourages many to continue and for the activity to grow. 

Let’s keep pushing, 
Cog 

PS:  I really like the idea of a single peerage creating a Knight of Heavy Wepons, a Knight of Archery, etc.  Although it will NEVER happen, it’s a great idea. 

From:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org [mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Fen & Michelle
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 9:30 AM
To: dconrad; Archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [Archers] From the SCA-Announcement list 

Well that brings up another point - Atlantia's archery program is a child of the East. I remember my first Pennsic as a newcomer, talking with a new Eastern archer about how his shooting went that day. He was going over errors he had made, and just as I was thinking of the proper advice to correct his form, he would finish my thought for me. Thats when it occured to me that our archery progam is a mirror of the East. Really made me realize how much we owe people (like Earl Mika) who brought the East's traditions to Atlantia, and those here who ran with it and made it the powerhouse it is today.  

But thats just the East and Atlantia. We have vibrant archery communities, but we may be ahead of the curve. It may take more time for the rest of the Known World to catch up to us :)   

Sorry to ramble, I just don't want us to get down on ourselves or lose faith. There are many of you that already exemplify the traits of a Knight and deserve such recognition - know that the rest of us do appreciate and respect all the work you have put into this crazy-fun world that has become known as Atlantian Archery.  

Cheers 
Fen 

Atlantian Archery. Nothing exists within 100 yards without our permission.
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