[Archers] Archers Digest, Vol 101, Issue 30

Thu Feb 16 12:27:50 PST 2012

Wow we are drilling down now aren't we. In my observation, except for our cross bow friends very few of use are using period gear. Quivers, belts and arm guards excluded. Godai makes a great attempt. I am sure there others. We make all our stuff from modern resources and shoot high performance laminated bows. So until we all shoot just sticks and string we don't have much room to criticize our rattan brothers and sisters on their equipment, right! And for our targets, me the worst offender of late with Cartoons, don't make period shoots. 

Just my observation

Seamus

On Feb 16, 2012, at 3:00 PM, archers-request at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Nature of peerage ... was: Re:  Archers Digest,	Vol 101,
>      Issue 25 (Fen & Michelle)
>   2. Re: Nature of peerage (John Atkins)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 08:55:06 -0800 (PST)
> From: Fen & Michelle <mobishob at yahoo.com>
> To: Siegfried <siegfried at crossbows.biz>,
> 	"archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org"
> 	<archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
> Subject: Re: [Archers] Nature of peerage ... was: Re:  Archers Digest,
> 	Vol 101, Issue 25
> Message-ID:
> 	<1329411306.91697.YahooMailNeo at web161703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> ?
> His Excellency Siegfried has me thinking about... zebras.? Yes, zebras - both horse and donkey,?but also neither.? I'll try to explain what I mean:
> ?
> An archer will make his own "period bow & arrows" and then use them in competition (skill at martial art). But do the heavies make "period" armor to use in Crown Tourney?? Correct my ignorance if I'm wrong, but I believe they would still use foam inserts as padding or stainless steel, modern techniques to form metal, etc.? Same for personal combat techniques -?aren't most trained in how to use a?rattan "club" instead of a sword??Again, same for melee tactics on the field. Do we really use "period" tactics at Pennsic if they are not effective?
> ?
> Maybe someone more knowledgable can flesh these thought out. It just seems to me that archery is like a zebra - portions of it fit into martial and the laurel, but not enough to actually belong to either group.
> ?
> Cheers
> Fen
> 
> Atlantian Archery. Nothing exists within 100 yards without our permission.
> ?
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Siegfried <siegfried at crossbows.biz>
> To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org 
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:51 AM
> Subject: [Archers] Nature of peerage ... was: Re: Archers Digest, Vol 101, Issue 25
> 
> 
> ...Where the one disconnect comes, is in the art/skill/science of the
> activity itself.? IE, in the 'martial art' of "Skill at archery", or
> "Skill at rapier".
> 
> ...However, the 'gap' that is often trying to be addressed here.? Is
> specifically the skill at the 'Martial Art' itself.? Being Amazing, at
> the skill of fighting with a sword, or Amazing at the medieval art of
> shooting a truly medieval crossbow or bow.
> 
> ...Right now, it's that 'skill at martial art', that isn't being
> recognized.? The Pelicans do not recognize it, because it's an 'art',
> not a service.? The Laurel do not recognize it (though a decade ago
> now, Society stated that they should), simply, and not their fault,
> because it doesn't fit into the 'typical' mindset of the rest of the
> Laurel arts, which revolve about research & creating physical items.
> 
> ...However, this specific 'skill at a martial art' form, is recognized
> specifically & solely for Armored Rattan Combat.? While yes, you need
> (or should) have all the other characteristics of a Peer, comporting
> oneself, teaching one's art, learning historical forms of one's art.
> 
> ...Someone can be made a Peer, in this case a Knight, for the 'primary
> reason' of their skill at medieval bladed combat, as represented by
> rattan swords.
> 
> ...However, if their chosen weapon that they want to perfect their skill
> with, and their focus is that skill alone, is a Rapier.? Or is a
> bow/crossbow.? Then they currently cannot be recognized the same way.
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:31:23 -0500
> From: "John Atkins" <cogworks at triad.rr.com>
> To: <archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
> Subject: Re: [Archers] Nature of peerage
> Message-ID: <008b01ccecd0$cdec2620$69c47260$@triad.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Fen,
> 
> Once again, excellent point.  If one has read Bernard Cornwell's books about
> early England and the Northmen and particularly his descriptions of a true
> shield wall then watching an SCA battle with a shield wall holds little, if
> any, resemblance to the "real thing".  Cornwell's shield walls are actual
> walls with specific techniques.  SCA shield walls are a bunch of SCA
> fighters lined up shoulder to shoulder digressing into one on one battles
> soon after "engagement".  And more to the point, for an archer to become a
> "peer" they should be known as making their bow, quiver, arm guard, string,
> and arrows and fluent in the history of archery and done displays of
> recreated archery gear?  And a fighter is made a knight/peer because their
> bought their armor, shield, weapon (let's be honest about how many heavies
> actually make their own gear and how period it is) and "hit real gud with
> it"?
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'm missing something here..........
> 
> 
> 
> cog
> 
> 
> 
> From: archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> [mailto:archers-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Fen &
> Michelle
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 11:55 AM
> To: Siegfried; archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: Re: [Archers] Nature of peerage ... was: Re: Archers Digest, Vol
> 101, Issue 25
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His Excellency Siegfried has me thinking about... zebras.  Yes, zebras -
> both horse and donkey, but also neither.  I'll try to explain what I mean:
> 
> 
> 
> An archer will make his own "period bow & arrows" and then use them in
> competition (skill at martial art). But do the heavies make "period" armor
> to use in Crown Tourney?  Correct my ignorance if I'm wrong, but I believe
> they would still use foam inserts as padding or stainless steel, modern
> techniques to form metal, etc.  Same for personal combat techniques - aren't
> most trained in how to use a rattan "club" instead of a sword? Again, same
> for melee tactics on the field. Do we really use "period" tactics at Pennsic
> if they are not effective?
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe someone more knowledgable can flesh these thought out. It just seems
> to me that archery is like a zebra - portions of it fit into martial and the
> laurel, but not enough to actually belong to either group.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Fen
> 
> 
> 
> Atlantian Archery. Nothing exists within 100 yards without our permission.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Siegfried <siegfried at crossbows.biz>
> To: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org 
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:51 AM
> Subject: [Archers] Nature of peerage ... was: Re: Archers Digest, Vol 101,
> Issue 25
> 
> 
> ...Where the one disconnect comes, is in the art/skill/science of the
> activity itself.  IE, in the 'martial art' of "Skill at archery", or
> "Skill at rapier".
> 
> ...However, the 'gap' that is often trying to be addressed here.  Is
> specifically the skill at the 'Martial Art' itself.  Being Amazing, at
> the skill of fighting with a sword, or Amazing at the medieval art of
> shooting a truly medieval crossbow or bow.
> 
> ...Right now, it's that 'skill at martial art', that isn't being
> recognized.  The Pelicans do not recognize it, because it's an 'art',
> not a service.  The Laurel do not recognize it (though a decade ago
> now, Society stated that they should), simply, and not their fault,
> because it doesn't fit into the 'typical' mindset of the rest of the
> Laurel arts, which revolve about research & creating physical items.
> 
> 
> 
> ...However, this specific 'skill at a martial art' form, is recognized
> specifically & solely for Armored Rattan Combat.  While yes, you need
> (or should) have all the other characteristics of a Peer, comporting
> oneself, teaching one's art, learning historical forms of one's art.
> 
> ...Someone can be made a Peer, in this case a Knight, for the 'primary
> reason' of their skill at medieval bladed combat, as represented by
> rattan swords.
> 
> ...However, if their chosen weapon that they want to perfect their skill
> with, and their focus is that skill alone, is a Rapier.  Or is a
> bow/crossbow.  Then they currently cannot be recognized the same way.
> 
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> End of Archers Digest, Vol 101, Issue 30
> ****************************************

Regards,

Jamie Frailey
jamie at designbyfive.com

c. 443.834.8141
p. 443.615.7264

225 East Redwood Street, 3rd Floor
Baltimore, MD 21202

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