[Archers] Fwd: Re: New Archery Rule Change

[Siegfried]

Forwarded for Esperanza who was having issues posting to the list.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Archers] New Archery Rule Change
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:36:01 -0500
From: ndcsive <ndcsive at cox.net>
To: Siegfried <siegfried at crossbows.biz>
CC: archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org

I have received my March Acorn and the new rule was in it.

I also have alot concerns regarding this new rule.  I think Siegfried
summed it up pretty well. Alot of sites that have been perfectly safe in
the past are deemed unsafe now because they do not have 100 yards from
the shooting line. Having visibility of that 100 yards is another
concern, not all ranges are in a totally flat area.

This rule will no doubt elimanate archery at some events. It will be sad
to see it go.

Lady Esperanza

Siegfried wrote:

>I have 'caught wind' of this ruling.  However this is the first
>semi-official statement of it that I have heard.  (I unfortunately had
>to miss the last Unevent, but otherwise hadn't seen anything in the
>Acorn nor this list, the Marshals list, nor the Merry Rose on it)
>
>Also, law.atlantia.sca.org still lists the old rule.
>
>So this new rule is not yet in effect unless I've missed an official
>announcement.  Is this rule currently being 'considered'?  When will it
>be made official via publication in the Acorn?  (Again, unless I missed
>it, but I just went back and searched the online archives, and couldn't
>find anything)
>
>All that being said ... let's discuss the rule.
>
>I have some serious concerns about the rule, as written.  I'll attempt
>to sum them up succinctly (and probably fail), and then give more
>details if requested in followups.
>
>1) First of all, just a point of logic.  Having the rule state '100 yds
>or half the distance to the target, whichever is greater', is kinda
>silly.  Since the latter won't ever be greater, unless the target is
>200+ yds away.  And if the target is over 200yds away, I doubt more than
>100yds of safety zone will be needed :)
>
>2) A problem with this is that it, IMO, over legislates common sense.
>In practice, yes, we probably often had 100yds behind a target (or 90,
>or 80), as that was part of just setting up a good range.  But there was
>a minimum (which is just that, a minimum) that had to be met & measured.
>   Now that minimum is significant.  Now, it's a rule.  Now, if you
>measure 99yds, it's not good enough.  (Not to mention you need to
>measure that 99yds).  This also means that MiC-events, Autocrats, etc
>may put kibosh on otherwise 'safe' ranges, because of having a hard
>number to see.
>
>3) There is a lack of information on what classifies as 'safety zone'.
>When it was '40yds or half the distance', it didn't matter as much, as
>you'd always want that much 'totally clear' anyway.  But now with the
>larger range, keeping it completely clear can be devastating to ranges.
> What about a parking lot 80yds away where you call hold if someone
>enters the lot to get to their car?  A walking path that you can't block
>off for legal reasons, but you stop shooting if people enter it? etc.
>
>4) It disregards any aspect of the 'nature of the shoot'.  Safety zones
>needed for shooting a pop-n-jay at 5yds, are very different from
>shooting at a ground target at 5yds.  The former needs far more than
>100yds, the latter needs significantly less.
>
>5) Most importantly:  The requirement that any variation of this be
>approved, in writing, beforehand, has two GRAVE consequences that I fear
>will seriously hurt archery and cause it to appear at far less events
>(and events that IMO, have had perfectly safe archery in the past).
>
>* It completely disallows any 'last minute changes' in site layout.
>Which happen often IMO.  It also disallows any case of "Heading to a
>site to help them out" which I've often done.  Where the plan is to show
>up on site with some targets, find a safe place, and shoot.  Since you
>have no 'direct' knowledge of the area, someone's description might have
>been off.  But you can't play it off the cuff, since you need previous
>approval.
>
>* It is removing the ability for our Marshals, properly trained as they
>should be, to make appropriate decisions about setting up a safe range.
> Even worse perhaps, it puts the decision (no offense) in the hands of
>someone who has ZERO personal knowledge/experience with that range.  The
>DEM-TA is going to have to make a decision, based upon a description
>provided them IN WRITING.  Which is a poor substitute from being on the
>site, looking at all the factors (the event, traffic flow, barriers,
>targets, bows in use, etc etc) and making an informed decision.
>
>In Service,
>Siegfried
>
>PS.  Told you I'd fail at being succinct.
>
>
>On 3/2/10 4:56 PM, loreleielkins at aol.com wrote:
>  
>
>>Greetings everyone. I have received a few emails about the rule change
>>for archery that came out a while ago.  I just wanted to make sure
>>everyone was first, aware of the new rule, and secondly, understands the
>>new rule.  This e-list is a good place to discuss the issue and make
>>sure we are all on the same page, since I've heard more than one
>>interpretation of the new rule.
>> 
>>This is also a good time for us to review the event sites we typically
>>use and make sure the archery ranges are usable under the rule change,
>>and whether or not they will need a waiver from the Deputy Earl Marshal
>>for Target Archery. Remember that this needs to be done well in advance
>>of the event.
>> 
>>Tawk amongst ya selves.
>> 
>>THL Lorelei Greenleafe
>>EM. DEM TA
>> 
>> 
>>MODIFICATION :
>>3.9.3.2.2 At a minimum, each shooting station will have a safety zone that
>>extends 30 degrees from each end of the shooting line to a line even with
>>the furthest target, or 50 yards, whichever is closer. The safety zone will
>>then extend 100 yards from all points on the shooting line, or half the
>>distance from the shooting line to a line parallel to the farthest target,
>>whichever is greater. A larger safety zone is recommended if possible.
>>
>>A waiver may be requested for shorter ranges provided there is a physical
>>barrier, which will stop arrows. *This waiver must be requested in writing
>>from the DEM-Target Archery only and approval must be received in writing
>>and retained by the Marshal in charge at the site. *The DEM-Target Archery
>>may provide restrictions in order to use the modified range, such as
>>restricting bow type and poundage.
>>
>>NEW POLICY NUMBER:
>>3.8.3.2.5 The MIC-Target Archery will design the range with safety being the
>>primary concern. Range design will account for control of the shooters,
>>visibility of the range and the surrounding area, site layout and foot and
>>vehicle traffic patterns.
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
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>>Archers at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
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>>    
>>
>
>  
>