[Archers] Draft of Archery Rules

[Lawrence Castell]

All answers are proceeded with 'Ted', because you made the comments or asked the questions. And thanks for bringing up the items. If this helps you and the rest of the marshals out here then it has been worthwhile. And I hope that I have done an appropriate job here.

Mika - as my deputy if you are able to answer some of these questions better that I can, please do so. I do not always explain things in the best possible way.

Ignacio

Honor, Valor, Knowledge, and Service

>>> "Ted Shertzer" <scherz at erols.com> 04/28/02 03:00PM >>>
Hello All,

Having heard some comments about the Draft of the Archery Rules, I went back
to look at them. I have a few questions or concerns that I would like to
have addressed. I'll ask these questions as if I was a MIT so that I can get
a basic reply or answer that would be clear to any MIT...

Ted - I have no problem answering your comments and questions 'as a MIT'. but remember 99% of us out there in the marshal status are not MIT's. With that, we are supposed to be knowledgeable enough to be able to answer most of their questions. We are also their guide to conducting correct shooting and marshaling habits. That goes the same for the more experienced marshals helping the less experienced. Even though I am in the position that I am in as KAM I still rely on the more experienced marshals in this kingdom for guidance. That goes for on the field, off the field, and answering these types of email

In section

2.3.2 Training 

The bullet:

        Maintain or acquire an average on the Atlantian Royal Round list 

  Why would that be necessary ??  Suppose the Marshal/MIT/archer shoots only
the Winter and novelty shoots. We all know that the skill set on a Royal
Round Range may not apply 100% to the Winter or Novelty type shooting..
Having shot or required to shoot three Royal Rounds a year doesn't appear to
me to actually enhance one's ability to be a Marshal who could run a Royal
Round Range..  Knowing the rules and safety items would appear to me to be
more important.

Ted - Novelty shoots are for fun. The Winter Series and the IKAC are the Known World 'scoreboard' for archer rankings. The Royal Rounds (RR) are our kingdoms 'scoreboard' of archer rankings. Sure you need to be able to do marshaling for the other things (winter, IKAC), but within our kingdom we promote the RR's first. You will always here me say do the RR's then finish it up with an IKAC. In the winter, do the Winter series if you are not able to do the RR's. And with that promotion, ALL marshals need to be able to properly conduct/marshal the RR's for their event or practice. Doing this they also become experienced (I would hope) in the rules and safety issues. The experienced marshals are knowledgeable (or should be) in this area. Section 2.3.2 is covering the training of new marshals. I would make the 'assumption' (that is only an ass u m ption) that most archers that become MIT's are familiar with RR's but  I would never make the commitment that is a fact. So a new MIT should maintain their RR score if they already have one. If they do not then at an appropriate event or practice they should acquire at least the minimum to get an average. This will ensure, across the kingdom, that MIT's know how to conduct, score, and marshal the one 'scoreboard' the kingdom has for ranking its archers. The new archers are still learning and want to learn. Its the archers that have been around a long time that get the attitude that 'Oh well, I been there and done it all so why should I have to keep up with it'. All we are after is to ensure good safe habits and marshaling techniques throughout all the marshals in the kingdom.


In section

3.1.2 Forbidden Equipment and Techniques 

        Hand straps - strap that holds the hand to the bow 

I don't understand this one. How does a device that keeps the bow safely
attached to an archer be forbidden. I've seen several SCA archers who should
or would benefit from the use of one. It would have prevented them from
dropping their bow when they released. Especially when a proper grip on a
bow is a loose grip..

Ted - Sure it is best to have a loose grip. But we also say enough of a grip to hold onto the bow. A no grip is a drop the bow grip. A dropped bow is also a safety hazard. (Which way will the bow go, will the archer immediately try to pick the bow up even if it is in front of the line?) We as marshals should be guiding and training the archers that are less experienced in the proper handling of equipment on the line. Archers should be able to properly use their equipment without the use of a hand strap. If they need it because the bow is too heavy for them then that is not the bow that they should be using. Hand straps are typically used to stabilize the bow during shooting and not to prevent dropping the bow. This gives an unfair advantage to the other archers around them, as with other item within this list. But keep in mind that there is an exception to all the rules. (Don't make exceptions just  because the person is a friend or you personally do not like the rule.) Example in this case - a person that has an obvious physical handicap want s to shoot and we have someone (marshal) that can work with them one on one and they need the hand strap to hold onto the bow. Then it is the decision of the Marshal In Charge of the event or practice to allow the archer to use the hand strap.


        Uncovered holes in the handle of some types of recurve and take-down
bows 

I assume this applies to covering up the bow with tape etc.. so that it
doesn't look so modern. My problem with this is wouldn't it make it harder
for me as young MIT to actually inspect the bow when the tape has covered
areas I can not see..  

Ted - You are correct, as far as you went. Most take down bows will have the holes in the non flexing middle section of the bow. The tape would not cover the limbs or the connecting screw/nut areas. In most cases during a marshals inspection of this type of bow the bow will usually turn up untaped. At which time we will ask for this area to be taped. But we also tell the MIT that there are bows out there that have a special type of tape or leather that covers the complete bow. We have to inspect the bow to the best of our ability and when we cannot see the complete base bow we make our best judgment. We do not reject the bow just because we cannot see every inch of the 'base' bow.


        Overhead draw (raising the bow high over the head pointing upward
and drawing it while lowering it         towards the target) 

I guess this one needs clarification to me.  How high is high ??.  I've seen
many archers raise their bow and lower as they pulled down. Infact History
tells us that that  was the perferred method of many longbowmen. And if the
range is setup appropriately, then an actual release down range should not
be more than an embarrassment to the archer at the time, followed up with
some possible hints or advise to prevent the issue from occurring again. If
we are raising beyond 45 degrees and the archer is holding it at that height
until they are fully drawn or almost drawn before lowering, then  I see a
potential problem and should be addressed.

Ted - Yes the key word here is 'high'. I also know many archers that pull the bow slightly above the target and lower to the point of release. Typically no problem. Most of us that have gone to a number of events know that the archery safety zone is not always optimum. Sure we set up a safe distance behind the targets for normal missed arrows at the targets. But it is very hard to ensure a clout distance behind the targets for slipped releases at a 30 to 50 degree angle above the horizon. Example - the last event that we went to. If anyone had released at a high angle the house in the background could very well have holes in it. And then again we have been to a lot of events that a release at a high angle would only mean that the 'arrow trolls' have taken their due reward. But, like you say, even then the archer should be advised of the possible problems. And if the archer continues with the technique they should be asked to stop shooting (do it nicely). I know I would not allow it at any event I am MIC'ing for.

Another point here is that shouldn't the crossbow fall in this area. Not
that we raise a crossbow over our heads and then lower it. But to the fact
that many crossbowmen sit.  They cock the bow, place it against their leg or
knee, where it can be pointing at an angle greater than 45 degrees and
normally not straight ahead (I guess they may be afraid of shooting
themselves in the foot), but at a slight angle, while they then place the
bolt on it before raising it off the knee or leg and placing it in the
proper position. With the different types of triggering mechanisms, many
require a little bit of pressure to cause a discharge.  Not very many
crossbowmen can cock the bow while kneeling, mainly here requires that they
do not load the bolt until they are in the kneeling position.  I'm not
saying that standing is the only way to shoot, because many crossbowmen do
not load the bolt until they are upright (makes sense to me), but many do
not hold it pointing down or straight ahead.  So, as a young MIT in
training, when do I call a safety condition on a crossbowmen and tell them
they are using a forbidden technique and must change it or they may not be
able to shoot on this range or event?

Ted - basically the same explanation as above. I have seen archers that use the crossbow standing up raise the crossbow at a 45% angle above the horizon with their fingers on the trigger and lower to the target. At any event that I am marshaling for I will not allow this. It does not make any difference whether the arrow or the bolt is released at a 45% angle above the horizon - you still have a safety factor. And remember, do not rely on the 30 yards of woods beyond the targets to stop the flight of the bolt or arrow. If there is houses or activity beyond the trees it needs to be factored into the safety equation. Also keep in mind that when an archer is sitting down and putting the bolt into the crossbow the crossbow might be at a slightly higher angle then when they are aiming. But is it pointed that much higher then the target? This is a call that has to be made by the line marshal. 


        sight markings of any kind on the string  

I really don't understand this one as a new MIT.  First if I draw back to to
an anchor point that touches my lips, cheek or ear, I can't even see how I
could see amy markings on the string. Are we saying that these are different
knocking points so that an archer always holds their bow at the same angle
while the angle of the arrow changes?? If so as a new MIT how or rather what
do I tell or explain to the archer why they can't use this method.

Ted - If you have a black string and four inches above the nock is a white string tied in place, this is a sight marking and you WILL be able to see it. The same concept of a peep hole. Except you do not look through it. So the same rule as not using a peep hole applies to this. Sight marking on the bow itself are used, especially for the Interkingdom contests.

 In section:

2.1.4 Activity 


        All warranted marshals are expected to exhibit a minimum level of
marshalling activity. Marshals that         report little or no marshalling
activity for a prolonged period of time will have their warrants revoked 

What is all this about??  Once I become a marshal, I may not actually run an
event, practice, etc. So, how is my activity as a Warranted Marshal to be
reported?? And what is a prolonged period?  The rules and regulations do not
change that often. When were the last time the rules for running the Royal
Rounds or IKAC been changed? So once an individual has been warranted, their
activity as a marshal should only be questioned and pulled, if they are
called  upon to run. monitor or assist, and it is clearly shown that they
can not perform the duties.

Ted - Marshals are not only expected to run events or practices. To my understanding marshals are out there to assist each other. Helping set up, run, and tear down at an event is activity that I expect to be reported in the event report that I should get for EVERY event. Quarterly reports should also include marshals that have run or assisted at the local groups practices. If a marshal does not run, assist, or teach at events or practices - why are they marshals? We do not give out the responsibility so that the person can have the name. And I will probably be very lenient on the time frame. In fact I will probably not even notice the inactivity until their marshal training becomes overdue for an extended period of time. And then they will be contacted individually first.


        Persons applying for warranting must have a current average on the
Atlantian Royal Round list. Ensuring         the working knowledge of the
rules and means of monitoring the Atlantian archery ranking system. This is
the only instance where a Royal Round average is required

I've addressed this issue earlier. I do not see why this requirement is
necessary. Having an average, doesn't assure that one has a working
knowledge etc.. Only that they shot 3 rounds...

Ted - also as addressed earlier. Maybe I am wrong, but I have always thought that doing something becomes a working knowledge of doing that item (OJT - On the Job Training). Shooting three RR's means learning to shoot three RR's. Recording the RR's is the display that that training was accomplished.

In Section:

2.2.1 Cancellation 

        The last marshal class attended was more than two years in the past 

Since the rules do not change that often. I'm curious why I would lose my
marshalling ability, just because I was unable to attend a Class. If I am
active either as a marshal (MIC) or as an archer participating at events
during that two year period, why should I be penalized, especially if I am
unable to attend the University or an event that a class may be given at.
I've seen individuals who have been in the SCA for many years and have
attended many events that have archery, but no classes (in a two year
period).  In fact the  number of events that had Marshalling classes could
be counted on one hand.   A Warranted Marshal is one who has gone through
the training and shows that they can perform the duties required to make a
safe archery environment. If the rules and regulations change that much then
we have a problem. CPR certification is not the skill level required here.
Besides, we have all come across marshals who attend the Marshalling class
at the appropriate frequency, but their skill level or confidence as a MIC
is not there or has not improved, and as Marshals, we watch to assist these
individuals many times behind the scenes and when appropriate point out the
ways they can improve in a private setting.  I agree that we all should
brush up on the rules and hear some of the experiences that hopefully would
be brought out in a classroom environment, but I see no reason to cancel or
remove a qualified and proven individual from our Marshalling ranks, just
because they could not attend a class.

Ted - This is more than an archery requirement, it is a kingdom level decision. In fact, do not be sunrise in the near future when the training gets a new level of information. At first they were thinking of making all marshals, in all fields, attending their respective marshals classes AND attend another kingdom level marshal class every two years. It has calmed down to allowing the kingdom level information be added to the specific marshals classes. The reason for Regional Marshal initiation into the structure was to help ensure that everyone could get a class when they need it (university, event, practice, private sitting, etc). Regional marshals cover 50% of the kingdom now (hopefully more later) so there should be no reason why any marshal should ever be overdue on a marshal class. This will be addressed in a separate email shortly. In the little time that I have been in the SCA (all of that time in archery) a marshal has been required to maintain the class to be a marshal. That has not changed. At the present 25% of the listed marshals are 'overdue'. But we are still catching up and they are still on 'slack' time. But time is running out because I will be running out of time at the kingdom level. Again as stated above, I agree with you. Just because you have been to the class and MIT'ed at two events does not mean that your make a great Marshal In Charge. The classes are to cover the basics and to update everyone on any new information. No one will lose their marshals name immediately after they become 'overdue'. The marshal will be contacted personally and a time for class will be set up. We don't set it in stone, we are here to work with each other and get the best of our environment.


Well, that's enough for now.  
 Theodore


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