[Ponte Alto] RE: Ponte-Alto Digest, Vol 17, Issue 3
Sarah Pearson
spearson at aypf.org
Fri Sep 3 06:17:57 PDT 2004
I agree with Kevin and Cat. Seems like other folks have strong feelings
about this as well--thankfully. I admit I have an unconventional way of
looking at this issue, but that's just me. :) Love you guys!
Isabella
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:00:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Catalina dell' Acqua <akgnome at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ponte Alto] RE: Ponte-Alto Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2
To: The Barony of Ponte Alto <ponte-alto at atlantia.sca.org>
Message-ID: <20040902170022.29472.qmail at web41313.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
i walk by myself quite often at pennsic. i have also
seen creepy people. i have never had any problems (at
pennsic, or in real life) though that may be because i
ahve been told that i walk "like i am looking for
someone to kick the crap out of..."
the biggest point here is that the guy turned around
and clocked her across the back of the head. anyone,
men or women, can be clocked across the back of the
head and robbed, etc. yes, it jsut so happens that
women are targeted more frequently because we are seen
as 'the weaker sex.' and i admit i dont like the idea
of "all women must have an escort,' since i agree that
it perpetuates the idea that women are weak and must
be protected. i think it is a much smarter idea to
say "everyone should walk with an escort." men or
women being escorted by men or women. again, anyone
can be knocked out by a mug to the back of the head.
i was simply forwarding the message on as was
requested by the victim.
pennsic is jsut a small cross-section of society, with
all the problems that go along with that. ok, with
far less problems than society has. but not every
person who goes to pennsic is a card-carrying sca
member. there are stories of locals gate-crashing to
go to parties and stuff. walkign with an escort (or
2) is smart, but so beign smart.
YMMV
Cat
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:21:49 -0400
From: Kevin Maxson <Kevin at Maxson.com>
Subject: [Ponte Alto] Re: On safety after dark
To: The Barony of Ponte Alto <ponte-alto at atlantia.sca.org>
Message-ID: <200409021721.BNP23469 at ms9.netsolmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
---- Original message ----
>I advocate for taking a proactive position of strength,
>say, something like volunteers for moonlight patrols
>to hunt for the type of creep that would attack woman
>or man. I would do this rather than take a fearful
>position that places the added responsibility of
>arranging an escort for women.
Sarah (and others),
Part of what causes the friction here (among the discussion,
not the crime) is that people try to place Victorian ideals
of courtly love onto 21st realities. I myself wonder at
some of the people who force their services upon women to
accept them as their hero and protector.
As another person mentioned on the kingdom list, these are
the modern times, and no amount of funny clothing or pretty
jewelry makes someone honorable or trustworthy. We'd like
to believe that those who play our game hold themselves to
the same standard that I know you and I hold ourselves.
However, when it comes to matters of safety, this dream
doesn't provide security.
(And I fear that scouring the highways looking for "creeps"
may harvest some of my unsavory, yet harmless, old friends.
No comments from Siobhan. ;-)
It would seem to me that the happy medium here is to *use*
the construct of our game, the foundations of courtesy, to
arrive at a pleasant solution.
I suggest that it be a common and routine practice to simply
offer or ask for help.
A simple, "Good my lady, in the interest of safety, may I
escort you to your next destination?" can be asked by
anyone, male or female. (One could also ask this of a
gentleman, but I don't believe it's quite as necessary in
our culture.)
Just as important - if not *more* important - is encouraging
the practice of those who wish to be escorted to feel free
to ask for one. "It's late, and quite dark on the road,
could someone escort me to my next destination?" I have
never turned down a request for escort, though I'm not often
asked. It's appropriate to do so.
This seems to dovetail in our ideals of common courtesy,
which I believe solve a great number of problems in general.
It's something that I also see fading as time goes by.
Marshalls are required to take a field marshalling class
once every two years to maintain their warrant. I often
wish that we could require a courtesy class every two years
to maintain one's membership. But therein, my friends, is a
larger topic entirely.
I remain, true to Their Majesties' service.
+ Kevin of Thornbury, OP
+++ (Kevin Maxson)
| Kevin at Maxson.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:30:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marsaili Johnston <ladymarsaili at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ponte Alto] Table Needed
To: The Barony of Ponte Alto <ponte-alto at atlantia.sca.org>
Message-ID: <20040902173045.80020.qmail at web50908.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thank you so much Agnes. I've got a table. Now, I do need to recruit
someone who can help me get stuff -- a chair, maybe a cooler, and a basket
-- to and from the car. Nothing heavy or difficult, except to me who's not
allowed to lift things!
Thanks,
Marsaili
agnes daunce <agnes_daunce at yahoo.com> wrote:
I have aa card table which I will be happy to bring and set up
on the list field.
Agnes Daunce
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:16:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: agnes daunce <agnes_daunce at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ponte Alto] Table Needed
To: The Barony of Ponte Alto <ponte-alto at atlantia.sca.org>
Message-ID: <20040902181622.84283.qmail at web12101.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I'll be happy to help you move stuff from your car to the list
field and back. That's what friends are for.
Agnes Daunce
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 15:39:12 -0400
From: "Katt Ziegler" <kittenkatt at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ponte Alto] RE: Ponte-Alto Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2
To: ponte-alto at atlantia.sca.org
Message-ID: <BAY13-F3muaUuhCMwsc0005e25f at hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
I see Isabella's point of view, but I think she's advocating very strongly
for something that is just not possible. Most men and women I know wouldn't
walk alone in a dark part of the inner city if they were aware that crimes
had been occuring there. Why should common sense take a vacation along with
the rest? Note that I included both genders- a man can be knocked out and
robbed as easily as a woman. Being armed isn't much of a solution for
either gender if one is unconcious. Is there any harm in having a friendly
someone to walk one home? I don't think so. There's a reason that "there's
safety in numbers" is such a well-known idiom.
Jericho is my mother and lives within the confines of the Barony of Ponte
Alto, as do I. I saw her sliced and bleeding hands, and the blood of her
attacker on the mug that she used to defend herself. Please don't simply
discount this as "just a story". No matter if this was your tenth Pennsic
or your thirty-third Pennsic, there's always a chance that things occur that
you may not have personal knowledge of. Asking for caution, common sense,
and information that may be available to bring an attacker to justice is not
a blind call for removal of freedom.
You said so yourself... "creeps" can look like anyone else in the
darkness... even you. I'd hate to have security groups hassling passers by
for mere suspicions. It seems a lot more beneficial to simply ask a friend
to walk with me.
Kisan of the Lowlands
>From: "Sarah Pearson" <spearson at aypf.org>
>Reply-To: The Barony of Ponte Alto <ponte-alto at atlantia.sca.org>
>To: <ponte-alto at atlantia.sca.org>
>Subject: [Ponte Alto] RE: Ponte-Alto Digest, Vol 17, Issue 2
>Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:41:29 -0400
>
>This is in response to the "Woman Attacked" message.
>
><Apologies in advance for the following rant.> I don't cotton to the idea
>of
>advocating for escorts for women at Pennsic. This account below is pretty
>much what was described to us at the Black Talon camp and, of course, there
>was a similar story last year...and the year before....and again we hear
>the
>appeal, "Please, do not let your women walk unescorted after dark at
>Pennsic." <heavy sigh> I've been to 10 Pennsic Wars, been walking around
>late, and I mean late, and I've seen some creepy people (and some may have
>thought I was creepy too, in the dark). I've never been fearful, always
>kept
>my wits about me and never been attacked, seen an attack, or heard directly
>of an attack near the swamp or anywhere else. Some might want us to adopt a
>policy that leads to the slippery slope of victim mentality and I say,
>no...rather chose the path of the warrior.
>
>Freedom is a terrible thing to lose, so I advocate for taking a proactive
>position of strength, say, something like volunteers for moonlight patrols
>to hunt for the type of creep that would attack woman or man. I would do
>this rather than take a fearful position that places the added
>responsibility of arranging an escort for women. What a bore! Many of us
>come to Pennsic to escape just this kind of sillyness. Pennsic is a
>peaceful
>and friendly place yet these stories keep popping up like spam
>advertisements to remind us to be fearful. Perhaps women who travel in
>darkness should take after the Tuchux and carry a weapon with them. Blah!
>
>Isabella
>
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:39:11 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Catalina dell' Acqua <akgnome at yahoo.com>
>Subject: [Ponte Alto] Woman Attacked at Pennsic
>To: Ponte-Alto at atlantia.sca.org
>Message-ID: <20040901163911.65209.qmail at web41312.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Greetings all!
>
>This is taken with permission from a post on another
>message board. Some of you may have already heard
>this. These words come from the victim herself.
>Please cross-post.
>
>Woman Attacked at Pennsic
>Thursday, August 19, around 4:30 am Jericho the Red of
>Timberwolfe was attacked while walking from the Lost
>Boys (block W20) to Timberwolfe (block E28). Her
>attack was reported to both security and the local
>police while on site, but her attacker is still at
>large.
>The details are as follows: She passed a man who
>appeared to be stumbling drunk. As soon as she passed
>him he hit her on the back of the head with a blunt
>object and knocked her down to the ground on the side
>of the road. He had a knife, which he tried to get to
>her throat. He cut her hands as she deflected the
>knife. She repeatedly bashed him in the face with her
>pewter mug and managed to kick him off of her. He is
>between 5"8" and 6", dark shoulder length hair (or
>thereabouts), goatee, medium skin tone, light eyes,
>medium build. He was wearing a blackwatch kilt at the
>time and no tatoos on the chest or upper arms. He
>knocked her down hard enough for her to have seriously
>deep tissue bruising, but besides that, the cuts on
>her hands and the emotional upset she was un-harmed,
>as he ran off when she proved to be a fighter. She
>also now has a slight case of poison ivy, which may
>have occured from the side of the road, so he may also
>have poison ivy in addition to the facial lacerations
>on the left side of his face, particularly near the
>brow bone and damage rib cage.
>If you have possible tips or leads please contact PA
>state Police, Butler County, 724-284-8100 We were
>unable to get this in the Pennsic Independent, but
>want as many people to know as possible, as others'
>safety may be at stake. Please, do not let your women
>walk unescorted after dark at Pennsic. We are also
>asking that swampie camps povide and care for two
>tikis to keep and maintain along the dark part of the
>road on the Great Middle Highway and the Causeway near
>E28.
>
>if you have any questions..
>contact me,
>Jericho the Red
>jerichothered at hotmail.com
>
>
>
>YIS
>Catalina
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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>
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:01:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marsaili Johnston <ladymarsaili at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ponte Alto] Table Needed
To: The Barony of Ponte Alto <ponte-alto at atlantia.sca.org>
Message-ID: <20040902210111.11373.qmail at web50902.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thanks Agnes -- you are such a sweetheart. I really don't think that
finding someone to help me with that will be a problem.
<G> I'm told that since I'm actually finding it an annoyance not to be able
to do much on my own is a good sign and that I'm recovering!
Marsaili
agnes daunce <agnes_daunce at yahoo.com> wrote:
I'll be happy to help you move stuff from your car to the list
field and back. That's what friends are for.
Agnes Daunce
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