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<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002><FONT face=Georgia color=#ff0000 size=2>hey
i have the entire post of yours (copied below) and i am ready to
respond as well (if anyone is interested on my take on silly 5th grade jokes and
puns and the twist i can put on the current situation).
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002><FONT face=Georgia color=#ff0000
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002><FONT face=Georgia color=#ff0000 size=2>the
deliberate and unjustified slights against her highness and her/our knowledge of
the stupid and juvenile jokes made about atlantias arms aside , i am willing to
also voice my opinion of her highness, and our desires to see this blatant and
childish behavior smothered (and any other silly comments about vaginal
euphemisms). </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002><FONT face=Georgia color=#ff0000
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002><FONT face=Georgia color=#ff0000 size=2>and,
i am also willing to debate the fact that if the original (mostly unknown by
people and still very stupid) "pun" is somehow valid and magically is a
slight against atlantia, her queen, and her people, then so is the
pun that because of it she shaved it...... (or is anyone willing to debate that
as a current joke?)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002><FONT face=Georgia color=#ff0000
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002><FONT face=Georgia color=#ff0000
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002><FONT face=Georgia color=#ff0000
size=2>please let me know how to proceed if you are willing,
anyone.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002><FONT face=Georgia color=#ff0000
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002><FONT face=Georgia color=#ff0000
size=2>logan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002><FONT face=Georgia color=#ff0000
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002><FONT face=Georgia color=#ff0000
size=2>speaking as whatever you want me to speak as but growing very tired of
this already.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002><FONT face=Georgia color=#ff0000
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002>>From: <A
href="http://us.f149.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=beiskaldi@aol.com&YY=21893&order=down&sort=date&pos=0">beiskaldi@aol.com</A><BR>>Reply-To:
<A
href="http://us.f149.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=AtlantianHeralds@yahoogroups.com&YY=21893&order=down&sort=date&pos=0">AtlantianHeralds@yahoogroups.com</A><BR>>To:
<<A
href="http://us.f149.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=AtlantianHeralds@yahoogroups.com&YY=21893&order=down&sort=date&pos=0">AtlantianHeralds@yahoogroups.com</A>><BR>>Subject:
Re: [AtlantianHeralds] Queen's Arms<BR>>Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:23:46
EST<BR>><BR>>In a message dated Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:53:29 PM Eastern
Standard Time, <BR>>"Edvard Gayer" <<A
href="http://us.f149.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=scavard@hotmail.com&YY=21893&order=down&sort=date&pos=0">scavard@hotmail.com</A>>
writes:<BR>><BR>><snip><BR>> > (1) If the pun was offensive
enough 3 years ago to warrant it's removal, wouldn't it still be considered
offensive today?<BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002>It is offensive to some, not to others.
Apparently some consorts prefer to be represented by what is at best a crude
euphemism to a female body part, with less than respectable & honorable
connotations, and with disregard to what that says about her & the kingdom
she represents as a whole. (No, I'm not opinionated, not at all!) I
will be the first to get in line for crude jokes & off color humor, but then
again I don't use any title when I do that, and certainly am not representing
any group of people or acting in any official capacity.<BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=074062504-30032002> (2) Since it is likely that we heralds
are the only ones who AS A GROUP understand the nature of this pun, do we bear
an obligation to explain the pun to those non-heralds in our local groups, so
that their opinion on this matter may be an informed one?<BR>8 or so years ago
when I first got involved in the sca I recall seeing the device, & thought
about it less than a few minutes, & said to myself, why on earth would they
use that? It took some of the people I knew, including our then herald,
much longer to figure it out, but I am pretty confident that at least most of
the populace of my group is clued in by now, and I would think most people who
were around in 99 when it was changed have a good idea. I don't think it
needs to be outright explained in business meetings or by email, whatever, but
certainly answer anyone who asks.<BR><BR>thyra<BR>Highland
Foorde<BR></DIV></SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
atlantia-admin@atlantia.sca.org [mailto:atlantia-admin@atlantia.sca.org]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Beiskaldi@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 29, 2002 10:49
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Atlantia@atlantia.sca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [MR] Re:
[AtlantianHeralds] Queen's Arms<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>Well, since I see my comments on another
list have been posted here, I might add without my knowledge or permission, I
will also post my response here. I find it unfortunate that the person
who did so failed to attach my entire post & all comments made, but then
again, perhaps they would not have made her argument as easy. <BR></FONT><FONT
lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">In a message dated 03/29/2002 9:58:53 PM Eastern Standard
Time, silverdragon@Charleston.Net writes: <BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">However, there is no grounds at all for the personal attack on
Her Highness <BR>merely for taking an action that all those who have an
appreciation for <BR>Atlantian history should applaud. <BR><BR>After all,
it does make one wonder what will be the next Atlantian icon to <BR>fall
in the name of theoretical politically incorrect allusions. "Spike"
<BR>would be a really obvious candidate, I suspect.
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR><BR>And I suppose since I come from Virginia I should
laud a return to slavery and human ownership since it is our history and
'tradition'. (So sorry for not being politically correct there, but we
shouldn't let that get in the way, right?) Quite frankly that is the
kind of bs that has given the sca a bad name to a lot of ex members,
potential members that are turned off after their first introduction &
those that look down on it. I fail to see how offending and attacking
your fellow CoH members (that lack of history & reality thing) is an
improvement over what I said. <BR><BR>My comment made several assumptions:
1. HRH knows of the allusion, 2. If she did not, which I would
find hard to believe if she has been in the SCA and in Atlantia for the past
3-4 years, her advisors would have told her--after all, that is what they
are there for, and 3. for whatever reason she is choosing to disregard that
information. <BR><BR>As I mentioned, that allusion is the very first thing I
noticed upon ever seeing the queen's arms, *as a newbie*, with no knowledge
of heraldry & little knowledge or history of the sca, so I can't imagine
that noone else ever saw it. After all, since my world has 'little
sense of history or reality', I can hardly be expected to pick up on things
that noone else does--in fact, I should not be able to pick up on much at
all if that were true. <BR><BR>Your commentary on the history of the arms
itself shows a history of moving forward, not going backward, which is
exactly what this proposal entails. And you also point out that
nowhere in that time were any suggestions of impropriety made about the
arms. However, the fact is that there currently *is* such a suggestion
about it. Regardless of what was, the crown, and the populace, must
deal with what is. Even if there were no negative connotations in the
past, they are there now, and will continue to be there in the future.
<BR><BR>dawn/thyra, speaking for myself & not as a rep of anything,
whose comments have already been taken out of context, so won't bother with
disclaimers <BR><BR><BR>Don't fret about growing older; it is a privilege
denied to many. <BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>