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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>By God, I do hope you meant lamentations. Never in
my life have I been laminated. Nor do I plan to start, even if it would
earn a war point for my kingdom.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>All joking aside, I must point out that your post merely
underscores the fact that the current organization of the SCA shortchanges
rapier fighters. They are not a full war point. Why not? Do
they not fight with honor and slay their enemies? Aye, they do, and
with finesse, I might add. Why, then, do we perpetuate a system which
treats them as second-class citizens, as silly fops "pretending"
to fight? In my eleven years in the SCA, I have met far too many
"stick jocks" who take this sneering attitude. It's very easy for them, of
course, since they know darned well that it is official policy: rapier
fighters aren't worth as much as heavy fighters. High time we changed that
policy, I'd say.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>In for two more pennies (well on my way to a
pound.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Cristofana di Lorenzo</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mungoe1@msn.com href="mailto:mungoe1@msn.com">MR W</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=Thorgrimm@aol.com
href="mailto:Thorgrimm@aol.com">Thorgrimm@aol.com</A> ; <A
title=atlantia@atlantia.sca.org
href="mailto:atlantia@atlantia.sca.org">atlantia</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 06, 2002 5:37
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [MR] Another Tangent!!WO
WO</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Well, seems we have another interesting discusion going, Rattan Thugs
versus Wireweeneis.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> Having tried fencing and Heavy, I found
that the fencing was the easier to pick up. Brother Hrothgar and I talked
far into the night on this, and we noted from observation that about 2 years
is required on the average for a Heavy to get decent skills, and about 3
months for a fencer. Having a martial arts or wrestling background helps more
with fencing then heavy. A martial art teaches you to use both hands basically
mirroring themselves. Heavy uses a shield that requires a differant set of
movements unique to heavy. Fencing is also cheaper, not as smelly, and not as
much weight. This would be attractive to someone new coming in. In this I find
a difficulty, the splitting of resources (i.e new people).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> I hold it very dear to my heart that when I step out at
Pennsic and put my old body in harms way for that War point that I am doing
Service to my King, and everyone in my Kingdom. The Atlantian Army is for
Atlantia, we all fight for the common glory. Fencers are not a Full War point,
every person that does nothing but fencing is taking away from the Kingdom as
a whole. Even people who do nothing but A&S or service, never want to get
sweaty and bruised, have a place in their hearts of pride in the Kingdom Army.
The Army also appreciates them, when they hump water to us, or sing songs on
the Armies deeds. They contribute to the Atlantean Army in winning that
warpoint, and the War.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> I have <STRONG><U>a lot </U></STRONG> of respect
for those fencers that pick up a spear or bow and go out with the Army into
the woods and onto the field. The only time they get full armor on is when the
war horn is sounded. They are not the biggest guys, they don't need to be. We
have a lot of youngsters and old bulls to keep the shield wall up for them to
work behind. THese fencers/spearmen have the heart and courage to go out here
and risk themselves right along side we grunts, and a lot of them are pretty
damn good. That is why I feel that all fencers should try to pick up the
spear, or archery, or even siege weapons. {Heck, I don't care as long as you
help take out the bad guy trying to take my head off!} My god, what a Army we
could put out then.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> On the reverse, if ever Fencing gets to be a full War point
at Pennsic, I am going to be right out there with a schlager and help those
fencers that stood at my side, my Army's, and my King's. Everyone of the
MArinus Warband would be out there too, and I would even pressure my Brother
Hrothgar. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><U>Earning a War point is fighting for your
Kingdom.</U></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> So, fence all you want, that is you right. We can joke at
each other and have that friendly rivalry. However, listen for the sound of
Fair Atlantia calling, "To war, my brave warriors, to war." Step out with
spear in hand to slay our Kingdoms enemies, see them driven before you, and
hear the lamination of the women. </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>A Kingdom united can never fall.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> ----- Original Message -----</DIV>
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<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B>
Thorgrimm@aol.com</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 06, 2002 9:58
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> atlantia@atlantia.sca.org</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [MR] Tangent: was: Why
should Atlantia care was: Re:Curiosity</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>In a message dated
2/6/02 8:53:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, BWilliamson@extstay.com writes:
<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">don't <BR>knock it until you've tried it</FONT><FONT lang=0
face=Arial color=#000000 size=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR> I have tried it. I
was one of the many well meaning folks six or seven years ago who were
pushing fencing as a good alternative for people who couldn't fight. I saw
it as a way for small or otherwise physically challenged people to get a
taste of what it's like for us on the field. But comparing it to fighting is
to compare tofu to steak. <BR> It never occurred to me that people
would decide to do it instead of fighting and then try to convince people
it's on the same level. The fact that so many people think there should be a
"rapier king" or that there should be a special peerage created just proves
that the whole thing has gotten out of hand. <BR> The SCA
structure is based on armored combat. I don't think we can continue to
attempt the support of two martial styles. I believe it is at the root of a
lot of our recruitment problems because it sends out vastly differing images
to someone on the outside looking in. You have on the one hand the chivalry
and glory of combat, the knight in armor that is at the base of everyone's
vision of the middle ages, and on the other a game of tag being played with
19th and 20th Century accouterments. <BR> The only period duels I
have been able to document were fought in armor with legitimate weapons. The
majority of the manuals which are cited as proving that fencing is period
use broadswords, great swords, and a technique that would require more armor
than we use. <BR> I agree that schlager is a far more
reasonable replication of a period weapon. Unfortunately, you can't use it
the way it's meant to be used with the current fencing armor standards. But
I'll argue with you about the audience. Whenever I've seen fencing and
fighting simultaneously occurring near each other, the vast majority of
people in the crowd are watching the fighting. Regardless of how you try to
convince yourself otherwise, fighting is more exciting to watch. It might
please you to think that folks are watching your exploits with rapt
attention, but it usually isn't the case. <BR><BR>Hrothgar
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