[MR] My thoughts on proposed chages in

Steph Taylor aine0021 at gmail.com
Fri May 20 14:37:20 PDT 2011 

Greetings, I am Dyrfinna and I am still somewhat new to the SCA as I
have only been playing for 2yrs now and I thought I should chime in as
there has been alot of talk about these changes being made to make it
easier for newcomers to identify royalty. Honestly, they really will
not make it any easier in my opinion.

Most newcomers (from my experience) don't care about how tall or how
many points, we don't care if they are metal or leather. What matters
most is that someone take us aside and point out the crowns and what
they mean and how we should act when we see them. I was blessed to
have joined a group of folks that had this knowledge and gladly shared
it so I was no longer afraid to be in the presence of royals. And yes,
I was terrified of doing or saying the wrong thing or not knowing that
someone was royal and being able to address them properly. My friends
taught me how to do this and though I may still get the crowns
confused at times I at least know how to properly address anyone
wearing a crown no matter which one they wear.

It takes awhile for newcomers to really know what the differences are
between the crowns and I don't feel these laws will do anything to
help with that. To truly help a newcomer we should make the effort to
walk them around and point out things to them (how to recognize
royalty, where the fight field is, where court is and what to do in
court, etc.). Sorry if this is long winded but it's just my two cents.

-Dyrfinna

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 11:01 PM, Gaelan Mac Cuinnegain
<lordgaelan at aol.com> wrote:
> Your Grace Logan,
>
> I would never question what TRMs say as their intent for the proposed changes. What I would say is that in 5 years when someone questions the intent of why we have this set of rules, that if the intent is not included to grandfather in current coronets, that it will be left to interpretation on a case by case basis.
>
> In modern life I am an engineer and have to deal with the building code. The building code is taken as "law" when it comes to the enforcement of construction. However, the commentary that is presented to change the "law" is not part of the code and therefore is left to interpretation. Interpretations of the code vary between each individual that reads the code. In a best case scenario, we hope that 80% of the architects and engineers can agree on 90% of the intent of the code, which means they really only get all of it right about 75% of the time.
>
> If we leave the proposed changes open to interpretation based on someone's intent versus what is written, we will be hiring Arthur, Diane and Jason Fearon as opposed to having Cuan, Luned and Jason Kinslae there to enjoy this game.
>
> I do realize that this is a monarchy and I am a pretty devout Royalist, but that still doesn't stop most of us common nobility from questioning the intent of why they do things (e.g. why do they give certain awards and not others, why did so and so get this or that, etc.).
>
> Most of us, including newcomers, don't really have a problem with the piece of metal on someone's head. From what I have seen, it is the one's with the metal on their heads that expect a certain level aloofness and imposed awe because they have that piece of metal. How big or shiny that piece of metal is, is not the (rumored) reason that these sumptuary laws are being proposed. The "rumored reason" is that someone with a royal coronet (duchy, county, landed baronage) didn't receive enough respect while wearing their coronet because the court baronage coronets were bigger and shinier than theirs and that is how people act around the Ct. Baronage.
>
> This is a matter of education and not a need for codifying restrictions that we have managed to live with for nearly 30 years without. We have all failed to educate the new generation of the SCA on proper recognition of what to look for and how to act. We have also failed to realize that when we all started in the dark ages, that we have changed the SCA into an organization that is drastically different than when we started. This is actually a good thing in many ways, but we old-timers need to be more socialable with people that are new to us and not expect that they are going to recognize every coronet for every rank and individual. We need to be polite and courteous and educate the new generation. If you got your feelings hurt because someone didn't recognize you for a landed baron, princess, king, count, etc then that is a problem that that particular tin hat needs to correct with themself and not expect that some rule of law is going to fix. Not to sound offensive, but "Get over yourself. This is a hobby/game. You only get to be called Your Excellency or Your Grace because WE CHOOSE to play this game. Respect is Earned and Freely Given to those that Deserve it and Freely Give it to others. Those that Demand Respect are Freely Given Contempt."
>
> If the sumptuary laws are passed, then any grandfathering of existing coronets and any exceptions for people that receive their tin hat outside of Atlantia, and the intent should be included the language.
>
> Gaelan mac Cuinnega'in
>
> Logan <Logan at ebonwoulfe.com> wrote:
>
>>good lord, we cant assume someones statement is equal to their intent?  i
>>see no reason to question trms intent to grandfather anything.
>>
>>logan
>>
>>"I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was
>>hell."
>>Harry S Truman
>>"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his
>>vengeance need not be feared"
>>Niccolo Machiavelli
>>For your SCA combat needs please visit:
>>www.ebonwoulfe.com/armory.htm
>>
>>www.ebonwoulfe.com
>>
>>For worldwide listings of fighter practices please visit:
>>www.fighterpractice.com
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>>[mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of David
>>Chessler
>>Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 9:21 PM
>>To: Rorik Fredericsson; Merry Rose
>>Subject: Re: [MR] My thoughts on proposed chages in
>>
>>
>>
>>------ Original Message ------
>>Received: Thu, 19 May 2011 08:34:07 PM EDT
>>From: Rorik Fredericsson <baron.rorik at gmail.com>
>>To: Merry Rose <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
>>Subject: Re: [MR] My thoughts on proposed chages in
>>
>>> Yes, absolutely. HRH did state all current coronets are grandfathered...
>>> However, the proposed Law as written does NOT say that.
>>> Non scriptum, non est.
>>
>>An oral contract isn't worth the paper it's written on.
>>
>>S. Goldwyn
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>Davitt il Bigollo da Pisa
>>Goldsmith's Agent
>>Factor in the lands of the Mughuls
>>Coral and Emeralds from Inde and Serendip
>>
>>The straight thrust and the disengage with the foil, and the simple cutting
>>attack with the sabre, if done properly with distance, cannot be parried.
>>                        ---Julio Martinez Costello
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Logan <Logan at ebonwoulfe.com> wrote:
>>> > i may be misremembering but im pretty sure hrm stated that current head
>>gear
>>> > would be grandfathered.
>>> >
>>> > logan
>>> >
>>> > "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it
>>was
>>> > hell."
>>> > Harry S Truman
>>> > "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his
>>> > vengeance need not be feared"
>>> > Niccolo Machiavelli
>>> > For your SCA combat needs please visit:
>>> > www.ebonwoulfe.com/armory.htm
>>> >
>>> > www.ebonwoulfe.com
>>> >
>>> > For worldwide listings of fighter practices please visit:
>>> > www.fighterpractice.com
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>>> > [mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Wayne
>>Remes
>>> > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 5:40 PM
>>> > To: Atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
>>> > Subject: [MR] My thoughts on proposed chages in
>>> >
>>> > I do not like this idea.especially being a Viscount.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Corpora:
>>> >
>>> > 1. The Crown may present Awards of Arms, the titles of Court Baron and
>>Court
>>> > Baroness, and
>>> >
>>> > Grants of Arms in accordance with the laws and customs of the kingdom.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Corpora says "awarded in accordance with the laws and customs of the
>>> > Kingdom."
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Many Court Baronage and most of the Viscounty found in Atlantia were
>>awarded
>>> > by other Kingdoms. Making
>>> >
>>> > Award regalia of other Kingdoms adhere to Atlantia specific regalia
>>> > traditions is tacky and quite possibly slapping
>>> >
>>> > other kingdoms regalia traditions in the face.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I am not a Viscount of Atlantia, I am a Viscount of Drachenwald.
>>> >
>>> > My Viscounty coronet is a symbol of Drachenwald...not Atlantia it should
>>> > adhere to Drachenwald sumptuary requirements.not Atlantian.
>>> >
>>> > The Same should hold true for Court Barony Coronets awarded by foreign
>>> > Crowns since they are not Atlantian Baronial Coronets.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Axel
>>> >
>>> > ========================================================================
>>> >                   The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
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>>> >
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>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rorik Fredericsson
>>> Viking Warlord
>>>
>>> "It's amazing how much 'mature wisdom' resembles being tired."
>>> ========================================================================
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>>>     List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
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>>
>>
>>========================================================================
>>                   The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
>>    List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
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>>
>>========================================================================
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> ========================================================================
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>    List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
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