[MR] My thoughts on proposed chages in

[Jonathas]

Your Grace, Baron Siegfried,

In reading the "grandfather" clause I notice, at least in my understanding
of it, that it seems to only address coronets which move in from foreign
lands but does not touch on coronets from within which exist prior to a
change in Kingdom law.  Please correct me if I missed and/or miss read some
part.  Given my reading if some sort of "grandfather" language is not added
then all coronets given by the Crowns of Atlantia must conform to the new
law once in effect.  Only those received in foreign lands are grandfathered
by the Society letter.

Baron Jonathas


Quoting from an earlier post:
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 12:04 AM, E. L. Wimett
<silverdragon at charleston.net>wrote:
“Another problem which has developed is the situation with kingdoms having
different sumptuary standards and the cases where people from one kingdom
travel to or move to another kingdom. The Middle had, until recently, laws
on the size and style of banners allowed to different ranks. Both the Middle
and Meridies have laws concerning the designs and materials allowed for
coronets and circlets for various ranks. Some people have had their personal
coronets questioned when they moved to another kingdom having different
standards. Whether or not the College decides to have standard designs for
things like viscounty coronets, baronial circlets, armigers' circlets, etc.,
I would like to make one thing quite clear: anyone who has received an item
of regalia according to the customs and laws of the kingdom or principality
in which they earned the right to such regalia, whether it be a medallion, a
circlet, a coronet, or some other emblem of regalia, has the right to
continue to use that regalia wherever else in the SCA they may move or
travel to. Kingdom or Principality sumptuary codes apply only to regalia
earned in that kingdom or principality or made new while living in that
kingdom or principality. Thus, if a court Baron is given a golden circlet by
the King when he is made a court Baron he has the right to wear that circlet
when he travels to or moves to another kingdom whose custom or law is to
have court Barons wear silver circlets. Should that court Baron later wish
to make a new circlet, then that new circlet should conform to the customs
or laws in the new area of residence. The old regalia legally obtained in
the previous kingdom of residence is protected under a grandfather-clause
exemption from sumptuary laws in other kingdoms.
 To make sure that the Powers That Be are aware that foreign regalia has
entered the Kingdom, and to provide a clear indication that the foreign
regalia has indeed been granted an exception, I recommend that the custom be
established that immigrating armigers with rights to particular regalia
check with the Principal Herald of the new kingdom of residence and get such
regalia cleared. Such clearance should be relatively routine, except in
excessive cases. In period, anyone who could afford the materials and labor
to make one (and also to pay the sumptuary tax) could wear a jeweled
circlet. The right of all SCA members to wear a simple thin circlet to hold
their headdress/hair down should not be abridged in any kingdom of the SCA.
For the sake of courtesy and hospitality, visitors from other kingdoms
should never be questioned on matters of regalia, beyond a tactful inquiry
as to what the regalia is for and whether it is standard in the person's
home kingdom. Someone moving to another kingdom should inquire into and be
informed of any sumptuary customs or laws in effect in that kingdom, and
would be well advised to consider conforming to local customs, but s/he
should not be required to throw away legally received regalia.”




On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Arthur Donadio <dukecuan at hotmail.com>wrote:

>
> Your Excellency,
>
> The grandfather clause is not written in the law because it already exists
> at a Society level.  It is sloppy writing to duplicate what exists
> elsewhere.  This is referenced in the FAQ, including a link to that heraldic
> precedent.
>
> As Sir Bryce pointed out, a dedicated email address was established for
> feedback on this issue, and I encourage all who have comments to send them
> to feedbackatlantia AT gmail DOT com.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Padraigin
>