[MR] opinions on peerage

[Michael Mitchell]

http://sca.org/docs/pdf/govdocs.pdf - page 20.



Lord Michael Wymarc


-----Original Message-----
From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Jim/Mathias
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 12:20 PM
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [MR] opinions on peerage

>From Duke Logan:
[quote] sure.  elton john is a knight and i dont think he has any prior
military
service.  but that not relevant in the sca.  sca knights are just that,
knights of the society.  the requirements for induction into that order
include chivalric combat.  nobody is refusing to acknowledge any "real life
period examples" regarding induction into our order.[/endquote]

Lord Karl wasn't discussing Elton John, he specifically said:
"real-life period examples of people getting knighted who had never
suited up in armor".  If you need an example, how about Sir Francis
Drake?  He was knighted in 1582 (within our period) for his service to
the crown as an explorer, ship captain and privateer.  I don't know
how familiar Your Grace is with maritime combat in period, but heavy
armor wasn't part of the equation, because swimming in armor is a
really bad idea.  Secondly, I've checked the Atlantian Books  of Law
and Policy and can find no definition of the Order of Chivalry, which
leaves me with what's recorded on the Order of Precedence, which
defines the Order of Chivalry as "One becomes a member of the Chivalry
through martial prowess on the field."  This says absolutely nothing
about what type of combat you're practicing, it simply refers to being
good at combat.  Can you show me a reference that defines "chivalric"
combat as taking place only with heavy armor and rattan weapons?

>From Her Majesty:
[quote] the Society mandated and tradition grounded basis of the
order.  The order of Chivalry in the SCA was created for and about
heavy fighting.[endquote]

Your Majesty, I've seen nothing in Society documents that even defines
the Peerage Orders, let alone mandates anything about them.  As far as
tradition goes, when the Order of Chivalry started, heavy fighting was
the only kind of fighting in existence in the Society, so naturally
that's what people associate with knighthood.  However, that has
changed, but the peerage-level recognition has not.  There are some
that point to the Order of the Laurel as the proper place for
recognition of other martial activities, but (again from the Atlantian
OP), "One becomes a Laurel through excellence in the arts and
sciences."  Skill with a rapier or a bow simply does not fit that
description.  And moreover, the simple fact is that the Order of the
Laurel is NOT recognizing fencers or archers.

You suggest looking at "the many ways we have of recognizing those
contributions." Yes, the kingdom has many ways of recognizing folks,
but there aren't equal levels of recognition.  The problem is that
while there is a route to a peerage for almost anything else in the
Society, there is none for martial activities other than heavy combat.
 It's difficult for someone in one of the several neglected
disciplines not to get discouraged and possibly bitter when they see
those of great skill in their discipline, those who have served the
kingdom well at events and wars, being overlooked for EQUAL
recognition simply because they don't swing a piece of rattan.

There was an old joke when I was in the Navy, "200 years of tradition
totally unhampered by progress", a joke that was all too often founded
in reality when the Navy as an organization refused to accept new
ideas because "that's the way it's always been done".  Blindly holding
on to tradition and refusing to acknowledge that the world has
changed, including the Known Worlde, and thereby refusing to recognize
the skills and service of some people, is certainly not in keeping
with the ideal of honor that the Society has set for itself.

Yours in Service,
Lord Mathias von Oldenburg
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