[MR] Defining Time and Middle Ages was Egyptian Personas in the SCA

[Laurence Lagnese]

I agree completely that everything is supposed to be based on Middle Ages.
 I also am taking note of the person did not include all of it which allows
for people to include interests that do not fit exactly into the SCA.

as a relative newcomer(3 years or so) this in turn makes me ask "Why does
the College of Heralds accept naming practices clearly outside of Western
European Middle Ages time and region?"

Also some historical references define middles ages as 5 century to 17
century

Others define it as 1066 to 1485

And I can probably find more variations.





On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Arthur Donadio <dukecuan at hotmail.com> wrote:

>  *
>
> Period:
> *The era used by the Society as the base for its re-creation activities.
> The Society is based on
>
> the life and culture of the landed nobility of pre-17
> th Century Western Europe, focusing on the Middle Ages and the
> Renaissance.
>
> I am arguing, and agreeing with Hrothny.  Selecting the feelgood, fuzzy,
> welcoming PR parts of the governing docs rather than reading them in context
> is the only way to support your argument.   The above quote, taken from the
> definitions section, when read with the the rest of Corpora, clearly gives
> us a start and end:  Middle Ages and Renaissance.  And a place: Western
> Europe.  The docs also include a gentle nudge that if you want to portray a
> person who lived during those times and outside of those boundaries then you
> are a visitor in our courts and should behave accordingly.  You, Altan, are
> taking part of one sentence to argue against the clear meaning of everything
> else in Corpora.
>
> If someone interested in recreating a fatimid persona wants to visit
> Western Europe with his/her arts to display, I will welcome them with polite
> interest.  If you walk around in a pleated cotton kilt and a pharoah hat, I
> will politely call you on it.  I encourage a healthy interest in all
> experimental history; that does not mean you need to do it at this party.
>
> There you go Hrothny, I'll take half and you take the other half.
>
> Arthur
>
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 07:42:00 -0400
> > From: ljlagnese at gmail.com
> > CC: Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>
> > Subject: Re: [MR] Egyptian Personas in the SCA
> >
> > Not arguing simply stating the facts copying straight from sca website
> > without any editing
> >
> > The SCA is an international organization dedicated to researching and
> > re-creating the arts and skills of pre-17th-century Europe. Our "Known
> > World" consists of 19 kingdoms, with over 30,000 members residing in
> > countries around the world. Members, dressed in clothing of the Middle
> Ages
> > and Renaissance, attend events which feature tournaments, royal courts,
> > feasts, dancing, various classes & workshops, and more.”
> > *
> > *
> > Found at www.sca.org
> >
> > This clearly states research prior to 17th century, it also states
> members
> > dressed in clothing of the middle ages and renaissance,(likely because
> this
> > is the most common thing to find at an event)
> >
> > or this
> >
> > These activities recreate aspects of the life and culture of the landed
> > nobility in Europe prior to 1600 CE. The dress, pastimes,
> > and above all the chivalric ideals of the period serve to unify our
> events
> > and activities.
> >
> > For Society members, most of the world, and all of the centuries prior to
> > the 17th, can serve as a source for
> > personal research. However, the further you go from the core of Medieval
> and
> > Renaissance Europe, the less
> > the environment we offer will resemble what someone of your time and
> > country would find natural or
> > homelike. For example, you can be an Asian or African guest at a European
> > court, but you cannot expect
> > others to share your special interests
> >
> > can be found here http://www.sca.org/docs/pdf/govdocs.pdf
> >
> > Which is Corpora. So not blasting so much as just saying "It is in
> Corpora"
> > so no matter how much you wanna ignore it, it wont change what is in
> > Corpora
> >
> > Altan
> >
> > ps did ya know a man from China(and his entourage) met the Pope, King of
> > England, King of France, Byzantine Emperor all around the years of
> 1280-1290
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 12:41 AM, Terri Morgan <online2much at cox.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > > > "Generally, the SCA covers the period 600 to 1600."
> > >
> > > > But that is by custom, not rule. The Governing Documents
> > >
> > > > only state "pre-17th century" and give no starting date.
> > >
> > > > Barcsi Janos
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *sigh*
> > >
> > > and another round of "what's our time period?"...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Look, I'm grumpy enough to be really plain in my writing tonight, so I
> > > apologise in advance for not wrapping this up in extreme courtesy and
> all
> > > that.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The opening paragraph, the thesis if you will, of Corpora states:
> > >
> > > "The Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. (SCA, Society) is a
> nonprofit
> > > educational organization devoted to
> > >
> > > study of the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Most of its activities take
> place
> > > in the context of a social structure
> > >
> > > adapted from the forms of the European Middle Ages, which allows
> > > participants to take a first-hand look at
> > >
> > > various aspects of the life, culture and technology of the times under
> > > study." [emphasis mine]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't give a hairy eyeball if you want to play some persona earlier
> than
> > > that, or from some country that the Europeans had barely heard of, but
> THIS
> > > game, this SCA, is about "the Middle Ages and Renaissance" as
> pertaining
> > > to
> > > Europe. And that is what I choose to play. Encouraging others to play
> > > outside of those defined lines may make a person feel cutting edge, or
> > > happy
> > > to thumb their noses at the status quo, or some other emotion - but it
> does
> > > a dis-service to the people who will be left as round pegs in a square
> hole
> > > once they start being involved in their local groups.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Or as Viscount Edward once wrote in the Pennsic Site book, "Please
> don't
> > > try
> > > to play baseball in our football game."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It isn't *bad*, but it also isn't the game we are claiming to play.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hrothny
> > >
> > > (If you're feeling like you need to blast me, please write to
> online2much
> > > @cox.net. Know that I will read your email although I may answer late
> or
> > > sporadically. It won't change anything written in Corpora, but I
> understand
> > > that pushing the envelope is a constant need for many of our members
> and
> > > anyone who says, "Whoa, charley!" has to be shouted at. May I suggest,
> > > should you feel that urge, that you also volunteer to be on the slate
> of
> > > BoD
> > > members where you can work to change our rules into something more
> fitting
> > > your views.)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ========================================================================
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