[MR] SCA Census..

Tue Jul 26 13:39:34 PDT 2011

you have valid points,
but is not the part of the SCA all about bartering,haggling for stuff,making your own garb and things part of the fun?
sure we have come a long way but I never have and never will talk down to someone who has made stuff for themselves
and seeing it is not perfect will smile say hey great job heres how we can make it better. we all have had that.
and we have all done that in one way or another.
lift them up.if they made it and it isnt perfect so what.they took pride in what they did.being a metalworker
I have always made what I could for people.armour,garb,anything for people wanting help.
as long as you let them help it fills them with pride.because they are doing it to play with us.

they see us who took years to perfect our clothes,gear,weapons.and want to be like us.
but if "us" looks at them and goes HUMPH not good enough,or say other bad stuff,
well wonder why we dont have new people?

I will take someone who just did there best to piece what garb or equipment they did to play whether first event or one of many,
over the best dressed knight,king,or otherwise..anyday.
because those well dressed peorsons sometimes look down on the lesser dressed with scorn. I have seen it.

yes money is tight for all. but back then it was more so.we need to get back to the swing of things with the bartering system
and enjoy the good that comes from it. because you never know....we need it now more then ever.no matter who we are.

and besides those carpet armour people are people,and fun as well.
the armour is rough but cool looking and well..it worked.I was one of those people as well.

in service,
Torgar

Fearlessness is better then a faint heart for any man who puts his nose out of  doors,The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long ago.

Thorwulfgar Uvaerkaller

________________________________
From: "sigrune at aol.com" <sigrune at aol.com>
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [MR] SCA Census..

To all, involved or monitoring this discussion I would like to contribute my own opinions on the matter and make observations of fact as appropriate.

Observation:  Some people pointed to the released data and stated membership/participation is down. Some have pointed to the released data and said membership/participation is stable or up.  How can this both be true? I am seriously baffled by this.

Observation: We "loose" a large number of participants for a variety of reasons, some of those reasons are economic, or life related.  There is a higher than expected level due to interaction with existing member issues.
My opinion: before anyone jumps all around accusing people or sets of people, would be to investigate the reasons for this more, either with another poll, or if more clear data can be gleaned from the poll already taken. (write-ins). A result of "Had issue with local group" can be so widely varied, the "issue" could be a matter of not offering a convenient activity on your side of a barony or other large geography group due to someone living outside the "core" area, as equally as it being "I and the local (officer) got into a heated argument" etc.

Observation:
"At the present the lack of a healthy economy is our biggest problem. The younger generation is gravitating to larp and other such groups I believe it is largely due to the high cost of SCA participation. In the early days armour standards were lower and one could effectively build out a suit in ones garage with a little guidance. With Helms running 500-900 and up most younger people have a hard time coming up with that kind of cash."

Fact: Minimum armor standards have not appreciably changed in the last 20+ years.  The cost of basic armor, if anything has gone down dramatically, even as cost of living and material prices have risen.  I can still buy $15 knee cops 20 years later!  Also,  knowing other LARP and costume groups, the cost is not all that lower. Many now have either safety concerns, or acceptable standards of dress rules, that requires expenditures of time and/or money to meet.   What is changing in the SCA (thankfully), is how armor kit accuracy is accepted among other fighters.  A growing number of Individuals are choosing to spend more time studying and striving for better looking kits.  This has a slightly negative spin-off effect (and is not limited to armor)...  It takes longer, or more resource/money for a new person to come to that level.  They see wonderful kits that are the result of hundreds of hours of research, hard work, skillful haggling, and
 expenditure of funds; and there is not a easy route to it (short of throwing a big wad of cash for it).  Quality armor(kit) is not a something that can be instantly gratified, it has to be worked for in some form or another.  However, the armor market has expanded a tremendous amount in the last 10 years.  20 years ago if I chose to buy a German Gothic plate kit, it would be nearly impossible to find, special order, and cost about $7000 to purchase with about 1 year lead time.  (and still probably not look right)  Currently, I can purchase such, available for immediate delivery, for about $3000, have a selection of vendors, AND it is no longer a welded helmet, but hand raised!
My Opinion: We have come a looooong way.
My Opinion Solution: Stop suggesting carpet armor to newbies and items fashionable in the SCA 30 years ago. LARPS, Romans Legios, Tournament Companies, all of these items while being more narrowly focused still offer to the newcomer a better path to "get with the program". They have a manageable-step policy. Let me elaborate:

New person shows interest - get them hooked, (various ways)
They understand the requirements of participation, and are given a path to make/obtain appropriate gear. In this process they are helped not only with learning how, but examples, materials etc.  Ask yourself this, "When was the last time I gave a newcomer/retainer the cloth to make their garb?"  It is a period practice, it happens in other organizations... why is it so infrequent in the SCA (unless it is that piece you found out was poly cotton)?
Other organizations tend to spend more time focusing on these support roles.  In the SCA it is more hit-and-miss, I have gone to some "sewing nights" where I feel alone in a room with 10 other people, I have been to others where I have found encouragement, camaraderie, and enjoyment as well as help. I have been to some where I have been tempted to try to beat the "help" off with a stick. Lets look at how we (the people that do/host them) these supporting activities in the SCA and see where we are coming outside that middle road of just enough help and encouragement without being off-putting.

In other groups, the idea of being lords and ladies is not automatic.  In other groups it is ok to be the ditch digger and common. This does not mean these people are treated any less, indeed it is the opposite in these other groups, the new people with their fledgling garb and items thus have a place that they "fit" into that is not a detractor. When trying to explain the concept of (universal nobility) to these new people within the SCA, taking into our accounts of our traditions and customs, and the fact that longer term participants have fleshed out their kits to a higher degree (usually), I have gotten many confused looks... One person summed it up well; "Ok, so I am special, but not *that* special.... wonderful."  I feel this fosters the negative perceptions of favoritism, cliquishness, social divisions; even though in many cases it is not actually true.  We are modern people with modern thoughts... new participants are less practiced in tuning
 these out.  They see a 3 year person walk by them in garb fit for royalty, and look at their own rightfully meager kit and say to themselves "I am falling short". Our culture has to interject an explanation to stifle their own self critic.   This becomes even more confusing in instances where a high award walks by in "sloppy" garb and deference is shown and encouraged.  In the words of my friend again; "Ok, we didn't bow to the lady in the dress with pearls on it, but we hit the dirt for the guy in the t-shirt with Celtic trim glued on...  So am I like the king since I am wearing a potato sack?"
In these other groups, no one is treated as peasants either and ordered around as such.  Yet in reading the mailing lists I see much complaining of "we don't have enough volunteers in service!"  and have witnessed some very harsh words trying to guilt people into volunteering.    I feel the SCA easily has the potential for correcting these errors in perception for new people, but our own zeal frequently interferes with this process for new participants. A false standard is set up in their head, and the prevailing SCA culture currently reinforces that false perception.  How best to fix this problem, I can only speculate; but the SCA is a smart organization, I have faith.

-Takeda Sanjuichiro ========================================================================
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