[MR] A&S issue

[Jim Springle]

Though I rarely comment on things I read on the MR I feel somewhat 
compelled to say something on this one...

I had gone to an A&S competition at an event where the judges were given 
beads/tokens of some sort. It was a themed event as I recall, and 
documentation was "optional". In front of each entrant's piece there was 
a small bowl. The judges were told *yes told* to put their beads into 
the bowls of who they thought was the best entry in the competition. No 
forms were layed out to for the judges to make comments. The one with 
the most tokens won the competition. Of course the person in charge had 
to watch over the competition like a hawk to prevent one person taking a 
token from one bowl and placing it into another bowl, but that should be 
minimal effort.

The comments were saved until *after* the competition was over and done 
*face-en-face* (face to face) if there were any. Would this kind of 
practice reduce or eliminate the hurt feelings if this kind of judging 
system were widely used?

Just my 2 cents,
Tankred Bras-de-Fer
Green Shark Persuivant Herald

On 12/3/2011 1:33 AM, Made For Willow wrote:
> I have seen the "judging" issue happen in all areas of A&S, including bardic. I, like many, have stopped competing in all A&S competitions for this very reason. I have also judged, and been very careful to be sure that I used positive feedback.
>   
> If judging is eliminated, then how would any completions and challenges be held? Brewing competitions, scribal competitions...bardic competitions..and events such as Chalice of the Sun Gods, Baronial or Royal Champion competitions...would no longer be held...not sure how that would work out?? Any ideas?? 
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Logan<Logan at ebonwoulfe.com>
> To: 'Merry Rose'<atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 10:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [MR] A&S issue
>
> clearly we should do away with judging if it has no value unless the judging
> is done by those with a modern recognition of their expertise.  if someone,
> judged in the sca as a master of their art (laurel), is not seen as anything
> but "rare" then judging in the hobby of the sca is bogus.  if we assume that
> the hobby has declared its own "experts" in their own fields then we must
> assume that their interpretation of excellence has, at least, some worth.
> dont get me wrong......  ive heard laurels slam someones work in armour and
> when i asked what their field was i was told "im a cooking laurel".  i
> laughed and said a few words to him and then walked out of that particular
> meeting (followed by seven laurels).  so yes, sometimes folks do not have
> their heads screwed on.
>
> as for people that leave comments without leaving their names i would
> suggest ignoring all of those.  one cannot accept the positive while being
> upset by the negative.  i would take all of it with a grain of salt, not
> find personal insult in it unless someone makes it personal, and just
> continue to embrace what brings me joy.  some folks are nasty and wish to
> hold others back in any way they can.  ive been in those meetings and ive
> read those letters.  i would encourage everyone to keep on trying to do
> great stuff.  so long as you sleep well at night and enjoy your craft you
> are doing it right.  if you want to be judged then seek out the experts in
> the field and talk with them privately.  they will encourage and guide
> anyone that asks.  if they dont, who cares.  ;^)
>
> regards
> logan
>
> "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was
> hell."
> Harry S Truman
> "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his
> vengeance need not be feared"
> Niccolo Machiavelli
> For your SCA combat needs please visit:
> www.ebonwoulfe.com/armory.htm
>
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>
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>
> From: Sandra Rangel [mailto:arwynn16 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 9:17 PM
> To: Logan; Merry Rose
> Subject: Re: [MR] A&S issue
>
> But the majority of the time the judge(s) are not an expert. And it is rare
> that anyone in the SCA has enough expertise on more than just a few things
> if that they be a peer, PhD, etc. or not. Then some, who get to judge in
> their "field", are willing to give their advice truthfully and constructive
> and I for one wholeheartedly appreciate that when it happens.
>
> I do agree with needing to accept that when entering a competition you _will
> be_ judged...but lets not make it an interrogation. It is discouraging when
> those hurtful comments are not signed with a name. There is a space for the
> judge's name but when they want to dish out their "opinion" but not leave a
> name I can't help but think it of any other than hurtful/rude/discouraging?
> I'm sorry that's not fair. Luckily, Ive only encountered this once and I was
> able to look at it and not let it affect me.
>
> I guess I assumed I was spoiled from the research background I came from. I
> know what really good judge comments sheets look like and there were some
> really ugly ones. I also look at the SCA as what it is... a hobby. I do care
> about what I do as Im sure others do as well. So you really have to have the
> motivation to power through and take the good and forget the bad. Ive
> learned to expect the worst or expect nothing from the judging side of
> things. The only good I do expect is for people to look at my art and hope
> that they maybe think "Hey that's neat" or "Cool, I want to do that"
>
> I'd like to add two things to close. 1) Anyone can leave a comment at an A&S
> participants entry- official judging not required. If you feel you've been
> slighted by judge comments then pay forward what you wish to have received
> to someone who has a display. Encouragement in the form of a token or small
> card with handwritten note. And 2) If you are running an A&S competition at
> an event please have the proper judging forms. If documentation is not
> required- take that part of the critique and/or not part of the overal
> score.
>
> Lady Rohesia
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 8:43 PM, Logan<Logan at ebonwoulfe.com>  wrote:
>
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