[MR] a question of protocol

[David Chessler]

Indeed. If you look at Gies and Gies book about knighthood, you see that the
SCA interpretation is Northern European, particularly English. In other
places, particularly Italy, knights were tied to the land, and exercised
little independence. It's like so many things in the SCA: what exact period
and what exact country.

For example, the ranks, marquis, etc, appear to have been created starting in
about the 14th C. Before then, Dukes were brothers of kings, except where they
 were war leaders, or held some hereditary "duchy" holding. Thus, there were
no hereditary Dukes in England. Moreover, after the crown started creating
various ranks (and selling them), only the Baron and Count (Earl) had real
temporal power and wealth. But those were the old, original ranks. But, of
course, this is England and Scandinavia. Italy was different. 

Thus, If precedence concerns you for some reason, then you have to look in
"corpora" or some written source FOR THE SCA. Gies and Gies, or any other
source describing how things were done in some part of Europe in some century,
will likely mislead you. 

And just to make things worse, the 16th C is "in period", but is renaissance,
not medieval, and very much was changing.

--

YIS

Davitt il Bigollo da Pisa
Erudit de l'Academie de Espee de Atlantia
Storvik (rapier)
Roxbury Mill (other things) 

------ Original Message ------
Received: Thu, 13 May 2010 01:26:15 PM EDT
From: "E. L. Wimett" <silverdragon at charleston.net>
To: <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [MR] a question of protocol

> Well, no, for the most part in period everyone was not acutely aware of who

> outranked whom.  And it varied radically from place to place and time to 
> time.  That's why they had specialists to deal with that.  They called them

> heralds. . .
> 
> Alisoun
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Carolyn Cox" <thefarseeing at bellsouth.net>
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 1:11 PM
> To: <atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
> Subject: Re: [MR] a question of protocol
> 
> > I do think it is important for us to come to a generally agreed upon order

> > of precedence.  We are trying to act in a manner something like period, 
> > and many do take this seriously.  Clearly, there is no general agreement 
> > now.  I will point out that in period, everyone was acutely aware of who 
> > outranked whom and acted accordingly on all ceremonial occasions and when

> > in court  Indeed, they took great pride in that knowledge and their 
> > ability to act correctly.  I see nothing wrong with that.  Averey
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