[MR] comps

[Craig]

His Grace makes some good points in this.  A few observations, if I may.

Regarding profit - I can see where a group making a profit is a good 
thing.  In my short time in the SCA, I've seen where there are 
expenditures for baronies and other groups - baronial pavilions, 
baronial tabards, etc.  Obviously, an excessive amount is not good, but 
a mild profit to help with future expenditures can be a good thing.  The 
point that Hrothny made about the KASF and needing to have that up-front 
money is a good one.

Regarding the people that assist at events.  I often hear or read pleas 
from the Crown or the Baronies about making award recommendations.  I 
don't know how many people are reccomended for an award on a regular 
basis, but the fact that I regularly hear calls for recommendations 
leads me to believe that there aren't as many as there should be.  I 
think that's the perfect way to thank them.

Having seconded quite a few royal/baronial courts, and been lead for 1 
royal court, I can attest to what His Grace said about the looks on 
people's faces.  That, to me, is the best part of being a herald.  When 
I am up behind the thrones, I get to see a person's face when they are 
called up, bewildered, and when they are told what they are 
receiving...well, it doesn't get any better than that.  Most people see 
only the backs of a persons head, but to see their face light up and the 
tears of joy well up in their eyes...that's what the SCA is to me.

I think I can safely say that most people do what they do at events 
because they enjoy it.  Those people that work long hours in the 
kitchen, or with setup/teardown - they do it out of a sense of wanting 
to give back to something they've gotten enjoyment out of.  I don't 
think anybody does any of that just to get an award.  They do it because 
it needs to be done.

Working with a volunteer organization other than the SCA, I know how 
it's aways the core 10% that do 90% of the work.  I know how difficult 
it can be to get people to help out.  One thing I've gotten out of this 
conversation is that we all (myself included) need to look at that 10% 
and do what we can to broaden that number.

- Cian mac Cellacháin hUí Dublaich

(mka Craig)


logan wrote:
> i think the real issue here is when does profit outweigh service and
> camaraderie.  i have heard, over and over, that "events have to make profit
> so that the group can put on the next event" and also "we need a safety net
> in case the next event is a total loss".  ok, i buy the second one although
> that reality is very very rare (hurricanes, snow storms, flooding).  the
> first one would make sense only if the group threw every fourth event for
> free, which doesnt really happen.
> 
> in a business model you would have to look at how much it costs to have
> "that" person there.  say, the head cook.  what does it cost the event to
> have that person show up to work in the kitchen.  in most cases, nothing.
> now the person you mention, the one that hauled this, mopped that,
> decorated, worked the gate (troll is such a silly word), handed out water,
> packed the kitchen, clean the toilets, repacked the storage building, etc
> etc.  if that person really did exists (and please everyone save me from the
> deluge of "ive done all of that at every event" emails) they would certainly
> be the exception and would certainly deserve our thanks and admiration.
> that is a whole lot of work in just a few short days and i doubt that anyone
> does that.  its an exaggeration im sure but it does make the point i think
> you are trying to make.  so to answer your question i would suggest that it
> would be impossible at the time they checked in at the gate for the event to
> know that they would be doing all of that and even harder for most folks to
> know that their contributions extended after all of us went home while they
> were busy putting everything back in storage.  the sca is a wonderful place
> which allows us to recognize them even after the fact.  that person should
> have inspired someone to write to the crown and to their local baron/ess and
> tell them of these good deeds.  while its not the same as refusing to accept
> their $10 i can tell you that the look on their face when they are reminded
> of their hard efforts and the impact those efforts have had on so many
> people did not go unnoticed when you induct them into the order of the
> golden dolphin or even the order of the pelican.  ive been there many times,
> ive looked in their faces, ive seen the impact, ive shared emotional tears
> with them.
> 
> so no, i dont think you can anticipate that persons contribution to that
> event.  its different than the person we, or at least i, were/was
> discussing.  the head cook is shackled to the kitchen and does not attend
> the event.  same with the event steward.  they should always be comped in my
> opinion.  or is their $20 really that important?  and before this moves over
> to comping high table i will duck out for a while because that one will get
> me all kinds of riled up about making profit on our friends.  ;^)
> 
> regards
> logan
> 
> "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was
> hell." 
> Harry S Truman 
> "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his
> vengeance need not be feared"
> Niccolo Machiavelli
> For your amouring needs please visit:
> www.ebonwoulfe.com/armory.htm
> 
> www.ebonwoulfe.com
> 
> For worldwide listings of fighter practices please visit:
> www.fighterpractice.com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> [mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Nicole E.
> Miller
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 2:19 PM
> To: 'Merry Rose'
> Subject: Re: [MR] comps
> 
> While there is definitely a difference in effort in the example you gave
> Your Grace, what about the individuals who came the evening before, lugging
> all the decor and kitchen supplies from storage, set up the tents on list
> field and tables in the halls, decorated the halls, then on event day worked
> troll, or did water bearing all day, then returned the next morning or
> stayed late into the night to take down all the decorations, pack up the
> kitchen gear, clean the restrooms, mop the floors and haul everything back
> to storage?  
> 
> Is there volunteered time and energy less meaningful or less of an effort
> than that of the head cook?
> 
> I am not disagreeing that some do way more than others, but where does it
> end?  Who decides what the line is for what hard work is valued at?
> 
> Lady Sian
> ---- logan <logan at ebonwoulfe.com> wrote: 
> 
> =============
> i find a disconnect when people suggest that the head cook should pay just
> like any other "event goer".  the difference, at least to me, is that when
> lord bob shows up at the event and spends 14 hours on saturday attending the
> event it is vastly different than lord spoonhand that spends 14 hours
> working in the kitchen.  one is attending the event the other is attending
> to a pot on a stove.  seems a bit unappreciative to me for someone to go up
> to spoonhand and say "hey buddy, as soon as youre done basting those hens i
> need you to pony up $10.  what, you thought you could work here for free?".
> then again i also find it distasteful when an event steward mentions, at a
> meeting, that the last event made $1200.00 profit and folks applaud.  so
> maybe im weird.
> 
> regards
> logan
> 
> "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was
> hell." 
> Harry S Truman 
> "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his
> vengeance need not be feared"
> Niccolo Machiavelli
> For your amouring needs please visit:
> www.ebonwoulfe.com/armory.htm
> 
> www.ebonwoulfe.com
> 
> For worldwide listings of fighter practices please visit:
> www.fighterpractice.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> [mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Bill
> Toscano
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:24 AM
> To: Sarah Toich
> Cc: Merry Rose
> Subject: Re: [MR] comps
> 
> Your Grace: I understand your philosophy.
> 
> But as an autocrat, I would feel rather badly if my Queen had to pay for an
> event where she should be the guest of our local group.
> 
> As I have said before, I think that there are degrees of intensity, and I
> feel there are at least a couple of people who should be comped at an event.
> I think, considering the work he/she puts in, the autocrat should not have
> to pay, and I think that if you have a head cook who has spent a couple
> nights pre-cooking and is in the kitchen for 10-12 hours. never to emerge,
> that person should get comped.
> 
> Just my opinion,
> 
> Liam
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