[MR] Term Usage

[logan]

I know that there is a lot of confusion between the terms chivalry and courtesy, and also between the actual medieval meaning of chivalry versus the romanticized notion of it handed down to us by the Victorians. Perhaps you could develop and teach a class on the differences?

Cheers,
Mathilde



im not sure i could.  well, not teach a class on it as it really is a subject of opinions rather than facts.  it would, i think, make an excellent roundtable discussion between fighters and non-fighters.  i received a personal email that i will copy below as i think some of the points are very interesting given the topic.

regards
logan


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From: xxxxx xxxxx [mailto:xxx at xxxxx.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:13 AM
To: logan
Subject: Re: [MR] Term Usage

Honestly I think that Lady Caterine's assessment of the things that are looked for is most likely the case. I think is it more often then not a combination of the things that I stated earlier
Chivalry - one's prowess on the field
Courtesy - being courteous to your fellow fighters, those working the tournament and those who have gather to watch.
Honor - behaving in an honorable manor, which includes the type of Actions the Lady Caterine described. 
 
I do think that good sportsmanship plays a part as well, but as you said that is something that is expected of all fighters. So in this case I think that, it comes down to the parts of a tournament that have more to do with the feeling of those attending rather than those fighting. Much as the tournaments that have a best death or entertain the queen portion. It comes down to opinion. 
 
xxxxxxxx



From: logan [mailto:logan at ebonwoulfe.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:29 AM
To: xxxx xxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [MR] Term Usage

thank you for sharing your views, i can see the part you describe near the end of your commentary, that is (if i understand you correctly) being respectful and appreciative of those involved with the tourney but not actually in the tourney.  "best death" for example is something i think i do understand.  someone acting out a defeat without being too cheesy with it.  i understand how those viewing the tourney appreciate it.  it makes it more climatic when someone visually represents their defeat.  personally i view our contests as what they are supposed to represent, that being the european armoured contests.  as such i always take a knee to the fighter that bested me in the contest and offer them my sword as a sign of defeat.  those tournaments were not "to the death" so i refuse to fall to the ground as if i had been killed, i just think it looks silly.  however, as a spectator i often find it less than clear when someone simply says "good" and the fight ends.  i prefer to see someone lose the fight.  i teach my students to also take a knee and visually display their defeat.

however, that still leaves the question unanswered.  if the most "chivalrous" prize were changed to most "courteous" and that courtesy was judged by how the fighter interacted with those running the tourney it would be clear.  but when you say "being courteous to your fellow fighters" it becomes unclear.  how does one behave in a courteous manner towards their opponent?  again, this may be my view on good sportsmanship and others viewing that expected display of behavior as "courteous".  and, if so, how is that displayed?

regards
logan

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