[MR] "most Chivalrous"

[Richard Fitzgilbert]

Greetings from Richard,

The problem, you see, is that people confuse the words courtesy and
chivalry.  Most people know what courtesy is, but think that chivalry is
something much like courtesy.

Chivalry, in the period sense, is (at its core) about killing people.
Chivalry is killing the right people, at the right time in the right way.
Courtesy is not.  Period tournaments were a way where you could demonstrate
your chivalric abilities (usually) without killing people.  But the point of
cultivating chivalric talents was to be able to answer your lord's call to
war when the time came and kill the right people at the right time in the
right way.  The ultimate in chivalry is to win against terrible odds against
fell opponents while gaining the respect of those same excellent opponents.
Looking good, and being a nice fellow while getting killed before swinging
your first blow gets you no respect from anyone in the knight's halls.

This is not to say that the kill count is the only thing that matters.  How
you kill your opponents also matters.  And here is where things get murky.
All successful fighters are respected.  Some are more respected than others.

Yours in Service to Atlantia,
Richard Fitzgilbert




-----Original Message-----
From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of
the.lady.phoenix at gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 2:11 PM
To: Melanie Weymark
Cc: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [MR] "most Chivalrous"

In a way, the SCA reminds me of a time where people took real war and
death as a spectator sport (for those interested in this out of period
off topic subject look up the battle of Bullrun the winners get to
name the battles even if they lost the engagement but won the war.),
in a way this just increases that looking at wars.

Until the below post I was not sure what was so Chivalrous about
fighting, knightly sure, but now I see it's not the fighting it's
whats done, before and after, and calling a hold on the fight before
someone gets seriously injured, even if it means giving up an
advantage and then losing to your opponent.

Lacking the gear I wonder if there has been a Tourney where the list
field was used, Combat Archers from each side started at opposite ends
of the field, they fire a volley at the same time at each other, and
then the survivors took a step forward, and this was repeated until
there was only 1 left standing?  (as if one side got wiped the
surviving side would lose half their number to the other side and then
continue until there was only one)

Sara

On 26/09/2009, Melanie Weymark <caterinestloe at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Your Grace you bring up quite an interesting question and one that I am
sure
> could and will have hundreds of different answers.
>
> I can only give my own insight on the matter, so please don't think I
speak
> for my Laurel or my house on this matter.
>
> Personally, I believe when looking to a list one judging for this
particular
> category can only judge on the appearance of what we call chivalry, honor,
> knightly behavior.  As an ex-fighter I know only too well how others
> (spectators) might think they know "that shot was good" when the one in
the
> steal hat knows better.  That in and of itself makes it hard to judge this
> off the field and in my opinion removes the actual fight from judgment.  I
> believe what the judge should be looking for is not actually chivalrous
> behavior in battle but more the displays that add to our society, such as
> paying honor to ones Lady in such a manner as to make the other Ladies
> watching smile just a little bit more, or two equals meeting on the field
> and after a long fight, leaving one inevitably the loser, embracing as
> friends, Paying due respect to the Crown of Atlantia and the Baron and
> Baroness of the land on which they fight, perhaps a fighter calling a hold
> when they
>  notice their opponent's knee arm has come loose.
>
> These sorts of things for me only add to our game and while many fighters
> believe that SCA fighting is a sport and has nothing to do with the Lady
> watching from the side lines...or the crowd around them, its man vs man
and
> nothing else matters, these little things truly bring to me the feeling of
> honor and chivalry and each time I see such an instant moment of truly
> "knightly behavior" I am allowed to slip a little further into the life
and
> let the real world slip away.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Lady Caterine St. Loe
> Chateaux Ferneaux
>
>
>
>
> ========================================================================
>                    The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
>     List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
>   Submissions: Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Subscriptions:
> http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/atlantia-atlantia.sca.org
>
========================================================================
                   The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
    List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
  Submissions: Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Subscriptions:
http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/atlantia-atlantia.sca.org