[MR] Handedness
Smith CTR Jeffrey C
jeffrey.c.smith.ctr at usmc.mil
Tue Oct 6 14:08:00 PDT 2009
I saw one exception to this twist of the stairs in Germany...IIRC it was at Cochem Castle, but no guarantee to that. I guess it lured the up-the-stairs attackers, until the loft overhead (aka crossbowman position) came into play -- or so it was described by the tour guide. A bolt in the back can change your whole day.
Barcsi Janos
-----Original Message-----
From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org [mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of logan
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 16:28
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [MR] Handedness
i never said it would be a big fire. 1 quart of oil splashed down on a bunch of cats packing a stairwell might do the trick....
>8^)
"I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell."
Harry S Truman
"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared"
Niccolo Machiavelli
For your amouring needs please visit:
www.ebonwoulfe.com/armory.htm
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-----Original Message-----
From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of David Chessler
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 3:56 PM
To: logan; atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [MR] Handedness
------ Original Message ------
Received: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 03:33:00 PM EDT
From: "logan" <logan at ebonwoulfe.com>
To: <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [MR] Handedness
> i would defend with fire. fire doesnt care which way the stairs go
> nor
what
> kind of armour you are wearing.
Fire goes up. That's how you clear the keep (donjon). Set a fire at the bottom and let the flames and smoke rise.
>
> ;^P
>
> logan
>
> "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought
> it
was
> hell."
> Harry S Truman
> "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his
> vengeance need not be feared"
> Niccolo Machiavelli
> For your amouring needs please visit:
> www.ebonwoulfe.com/armory.htm
>
> www.ebonwoulfe.com
>
> For worldwide listings of fighter practices please visit:
> www.fighterpractice.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> [mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of
> jbrmm266 at aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:59 PM
> To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: Re: [MR] Handedness
>
>
> The stairs in question are tight.? The treads are triangular and they
pivot,
> so to speak, around a central "post."
>
>
>
> A right-hander ascending a CW spiral stair has his sword arm
> restricted by the centre post of the stair and by the stair treads
> above.? He can only swing backhanded or try to stab.? The right-hander
> defending that stair
has
> more room to swing his sword as well as the advantage of striking down
> at the attacker.? And he can "ground" his shield on the centre post
> for an almost impenetrable defence as well as being able to duck back
> behind the center post to avoid blows that can only come from one direction.
>
>
>
> A left-hander would have a little better go of it attacking up such a
stair,
> but the advantage is still with the defender.
>
>
>
> I've been on tight spiral stairs like that and imagined being on both
> sides.? Trying to attack up one of those is not my idea of a good day
> at
the
> races.
>
>
>
> Your servant aye
>
> Donal
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Garth G. Groff <ggg9y at virginia.edu>
> To: Skip Davis <bonnskip24 at embarqmail.com>;
> Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Sent: Tue, Oct 6, 2009 10:28 am
> Subject: Re: [MR] Handedness
>
>
>
> Broccan,?
> ?
> I'm not a fighter, and am trying to picture the geometry of this. A
> right hander moving up clockwise staircase would have his shield to
> the left or outside of the staircase, and his sword would be closest
> to the newel or central post. A right-handed defender would be exactly
> the opposite, so it would sword against shield/sword against shield. A
> left-handed defender on
a
> clockwise staircase would meet his opponent sword against sword, with
> both swords closest to the newel, and shield against shield It would
> seem to me that both would be encumbered in that tight space, but I
> understand the advantage usually goes to a leftie in most cases,
> because the right-hand fighter is less trained to meet and parry a
> left-hand attack. Now a Kerr
on
> a counter-clockwise stair would face a right-hand opponent who now had
> his sword to the wall and shield to the newel, and the Kerr would also
> be
sword
> to the wall and shield to the newel. I think you are right. I really
> can't see any advantage ei ther way beyond the trained left-hand
> fighter's usual small edge. But
maybe
> just the hint of extra terror would be enough to put the attacker off.
Sort
> of psychological propaganda.?
> ?
> I can't see much in the way of flying objects in the tight space of a
> Scottish newel stairway, except perhaps a crossbow bolt. Although I've
never
> been to Scotland, I have explored a few castles in Wales and England,
> including a small border castle near Festiniog in Wales (which I judge
> to
be
> closer to the architecture of Scottish border castles than the grand
> state castles like Dover and the Tower). Either way, the newel stairs
> I have climbed had VERY low ceilings. There wasn't room in there to
> swing a cat, though I certainly will concede that this could be a
> factor on a open-air stairway, but those didn't generally wind.?
> ?
> Interesting defensive idea (maybe for a novel), pour small lead or
> steel shot onto the stairs and see how many men lose their footing and go down.?
> ?
> Kind regards,?
> ?
> Mungo Napier, Archer of Mallard Lodge?
> ?
> Skip Davis wrote:?
> > Actually that would just put the right handers on even standing
> > since
that
> means they could use their shields to protect themselves for flying
> object from above and clear their swords from being hindered by the
> wall on their sword side. This was the original purpose of the
> clockwise stairs. It made the people coming up the stairs open for
> being hit from thrown objects
from
> above and their swords getting caught up with the wall side.?
> > Broccan?
> > ----- Original Message -----?
> > From: "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y at virginia.edu>?
> > To: Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org?
> > Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 7:33:58 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern?
> > Subject: [MR] Handedness?
> >?
> > Friends,?
> >?
> > There was/is a Scottish border clan which was famous for being
> >mostly >
> left-handed, the Kerrs (pronounced "CAR"). The usual arrangement of >
newel
> stairs (that wind around a central post) in castles was clockwise, >
> supposedly to give a right-handed defender a slight advantage as he >
> retreated up the steps. Castles and tower houses built by the Kerrs
> (or > acquired castles later modified during expansion) featured >
anti-clockwise
> stairs to give defenders a double advantage over > ascending
> right-hand opponents. "Mary Queen of Scots' House" a small > t-shaped
> tower house
still
> intact in Jedburgh features these > anti-clockwise newel stairs. It
> was supposedly owned by the Kerrs and > leased to the Queen for a
> time. There
is
> a nice photo and explanation > found on page 30 in the Osprey book
> STRONGHOLDS OF THE BORDER REIVERS: > FORTIFICATIONS OF THE
> ANGLO-SCOTTISH BORDER, 1296-1603 by Keith Durham > (ISBN 9781846031977).?
> >?
> > Kind regards,?
> >?
> >?
> > Mungo Napier, That Crazy Scot?
> ?
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