[MR] Handedness

David Chessler chessler at usa.net
Tue Oct 6 12:56:05 PDT 2009 


------ Original Message ------
Received: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 03:33:00 PM EDT
From: "logan" <logan at ebonwoulfe.com>
To: <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [MR] Handedness

> i would defend with fire.  fire doesnt care which way the stairs go nor
what
> kind of armour you are wearing.

Fire goes up. That's how you clear the keep (donjon). Set a fire at the bottom
and let the flames and smoke rise.

> 
> ;^P
> 
> logan
> 
> "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was
> hell." 
> Harry S Truman 
> "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his
> vengeance need not be feared"
> Niccolo Machiavelli
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> 
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> [mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of
> jbrmm266 at aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:59 PM
> To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: Re: [MR] Handedness
> 
> 
> The stairs in question are tight.? The treads are triangular and they
pivot,
> so to speak, around a central "post."
> 
> 
> 
> A right-hander ascending a CW spiral stair has his sword arm restricted by
> the centre post of the stair and by the stair treads above.? He can only
> swing backhanded or try to stab.? The right-hander defending that stair has
> more room to swing his sword as well as the advantage of striking down at
> the attacker.? And he can "ground" his shield on the centre post for an
> almost impenetrable defence as well as being able to duck back behind the
> center post to avoid blows that can only come from one direction.
> 
> 
> 
> A left-hander would have a little better go of it attacking up such a
stair,
> but the advantage is still with the defender.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been on tight spiral stairs like that and imagined being on both
> sides.? Trying to attack up one of those is not my idea of a good day at
the
> races.
> 
> 
> 
> Your servant aye
> 
> Donal
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Garth G. Groff <ggg9y at virginia.edu>
> To: Skip Davis <bonnskip24 at embarqmail.com>;
> Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Sent: Tue, Oct 6, 2009 10:28 am
> Subject: Re: [MR] Handedness
> 
> 
> 
> Broccan,?
> ?
> I'm not a fighter, and am trying to picture the geometry of this. A right
> hander moving up clockwise staircase would have his shield to the left or
> outside of the staircase, and his sword would be closest to the newel or
> central post. A right-handed defender would be exactly the opposite, so it
> would sword against shield/sword against shield. A left-handed defender on
a
> clockwise staircase would meet his opponent sword against sword, with both
> swords closest to the newel, and shield against shield It would seem to me
> that both would be encumbered in that tight space, but I understand the
> advantage usually goes to a leftie in most cases, because the right-hand
> fighter is less trained to meet and parry a left-hand attack. Now a Kerr on
> a counter-clockwise stair would face a right-hand opponent who now had his
> sword to the wall and shield to the newel, and the Kerr would also be sword
> to the wall and shield to the newel. I think you are right. I really can't
> see any advantage ei
>  ther way beyond the trained left-hand fighter's usual small edge. But
maybe
> just the hint of extra terror would be enough to put the attacker off. Sort
> of psychological propaganda.?
> ?
> I can't see much in the way of flying objects in the tight space of a
> Scottish newel stairway, except perhaps a crossbow bolt. Although I've
never
> been to Scotland, I have explored a few castles in Wales and England,
> including a small border castle near Festiniog in Wales (which I judge to
be
> closer to the architecture of Scottish border castles than the grand state
> castles like Dover and the Tower). Either way, the newel stairs I have
> climbed had VERY low ceilings. There wasn't room in there to swing a cat,
> though I certainly will concede that this could be a factor on a open-air
> stairway, but those didn't generally wind.?
> ?
> Interesting defensive idea (maybe for a novel), pour small lead or steel
> shot onto the stairs and see how many men lose their footing and go down.?
> ?
> Kind regards,?
> ?
> Mungo Napier, Archer of Mallard Lodge?
> ?
> Skip Davis wrote:?
> > Actually that would just put the right handers on even standing since
that
> means they could use their shields to protect themselves for flying object
> from above and clear their swords from being hindered by the wall on their
> sword side. This was the original purpose of the clockwise stairs. It made
> the people coming up the stairs open for being hit from thrown objects from
> above and their swords getting caught up with the wall side.?
> > Broccan?
> > ----- Original Message -----?
> > From: "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y at virginia.edu>?
> > To: Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org?
> > Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 7:33:58 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern?
> > Subject: [MR] Handedness?
> >?
> > Friends,?
> >?
> > There was/is a Scottish border clan which was famous for being mostly >
> left-handed, the Kerrs (pronounced "CAR"). The usual arrangement of > newel
> stairs (that wind around a central post) in castles was clockwise, >
> supposedly to give a right-handed defender a slight advantage as he >
> retreated up the steps. Castles and tower houses built by the Kerrs (or >
> acquired castles later modified during expansion) featured > anti-clockwise
> stairs to give defenders a double advantage over > ascending right-hand
> opponents. "Mary Queen of Scots' House" a small > t-shaped tower house
still
> intact in Jedburgh features these > anti-clockwise newel stairs. It was
> supposedly owned by the Kerrs and > leased to the Queen for a time. There
is
> a nice photo and explanation > found on page 30 in the Osprey book
> STRONGHOLDS OF THE BORDER REIVERS: > FORTIFICATIONS OF THE ANGLO-SCOTTISH
> BORDER, 1296-1603 by Keith Durham > (ISBN 9781846031977).?
> >?
> > Kind regards,?
> >?
> >?
> > Mungo Napier, That Crazy Scot?
> ?
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