[MR] Handedness

[logan]

i would defend with fire.  fire doesnt care which way the stairs go nor what
kind of armour you are wearing.

;^P

logan

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-----Original Message-----
From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of
jbrmm266 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:59 PM
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [MR] Handedness


The stairs in question are tight.? The treads are triangular and they pivot,
so to speak, around a central "post."



A right-hander ascending a CW spiral stair has his sword arm restricted by
the centre post of the stair and by the stair treads above.? He can only
swing backhanded or try to stab.? The right-hander defending that stair has
more room to swing his sword as well as the advantage of striking down at
the attacker.? And he can "ground" his shield on the centre post for an
almost impenetrable defence as well as being able to duck back behind the
center post to avoid blows that can only come from one direction.



A left-hander would have a little better go of it attacking up such a stair,
but the advantage is still with the defender.



I've been on tight spiral stairs like that and imagined being on both
sides.? Trying to attack up one of those is not my idea of a good day at the
races.



Your servant aye

Donal


-----Original Message-----
From: Garth G. Groff <ggg9y at virginia.edu>
To: Skip Davis <bonnskip24 at embarqmail.com>;
Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Sent: Tue, Oct 6, 2009 10:28 am
Subject: Re: [MR] Handedness



Broccan,?
?
I'm not a fighter, and am trying to picture the geometry of this. A right
hander moving up clockwise staircase would have his shield to the left or
outside of the staircase, and his sword would be closest to the newel or
central post. A right-handed defender would be exactly the opposite, so it
would sword against shield/sword against shield. A left-handed defender on a
clockwise staircase would meet his opponent sword against sword, with both
swords closest to the newel, and shield against shield It would seem to me
that both would be encumbered in that tight space, but I understand the
advantage usually goes to a leftie in most cases, because the right-hand
fighter is less trained to meet and parry a left-hand attack. Now a Kerr on
a counter-clockwise stair would face a right-hand opponent who now had his
sword to the wall and shield to the newel, and the Kerr would also be sword
to the wall and shield to the newel. I think you are right. I really can't
see any advantage ei
 ther way beyond the trained left-hand fighter's usual small edge. But maybe
just the hint of extra terror would be enough to put the attacker off. Sort
of psychological propaganda.?
?
I can't see much in the way of flying objects in the tight space of a
Scottish newel stairway, except perhaps a crossbow bolt. Although I've never
been to Scotland, I have explored a few castles in Wales and England,
including a small border castle near Festiniog in Wales (which I judge to be
closer to the architecture of Scottish border castles than the grand state
castles like Dover and the Tower). Either way, the newel stairs I have
climbed had VERY low ceilings. There wasn't room in there to swing a cat,
though I certainly will concede that this could be a factor on a open-air
stairway, but those didn't generally wind.?
?
Interesting defensive idea (maybe for a novel), pour small lead or steel
shot onto the stairs and see how many men lose their footing and go down.?
?
Kind regards,?
?
Mungo Napier, Archer of Mallard Lodge?
?
Skip Davis wrote:?
> Actually that would just put the right handers on even standing since that
means they could use their shields to protect themselves for flying object
from above and clear their swords from being hindered by the wall on their
sword side. This was the original purpose of the clockwise stairs. It made
the people coming up the stairs open for being hit from thrown objects from
above and their swords getting caught up with the wall side.?
> Broccan?
> ----- Original Message -----?
> From: "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y at virginia.edu>?
> To: Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org?
> Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 7:33:58 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern?
> Subject: [MR] Handedness?
>?
> Friends,?
>?
> There was/is a Scottish border clan which was famous for being mostly >
left-handed, the Kerrs (pronounced "CAR"). The usual arrangement of > newel
stairs (that wind around a central post) in castles was clockwise, >
supposedly to give a right-handed defender a slight advantage as he >
retreated up the steps. Castles and tower houses built by the Kerrs (or >
acquired castles later modified during expansion) featured > anti-clockwise
stairs to give defenders a double advantage over > ascending right-hand
opponents. "Mary Queen of Scots' House" a small > t-shaped tower house still
intact in Jedburgh features these > anti-clockwise newel stairs. It was
supposedly owned by the Kerrs and > leased to the Queen for a time. There is
a nice photo and explanation > found on page 30 in the Osprey book
STRONGHOLDS OF THE BORDER REIVERS: > FORTIFICATIONS OF THE ANGLO-SCOTTISH
BORDER, 1296-1603 by Keith Durham > (ISBN 9781846031977).?
>?
> Kind regards,?
>?
>?
> Mungo Napier, That Crazy Scot?
?
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