[MR] pentagrams in devices
M'lady Foxy
angellfoxx at yahoo.com
Thu Jul 23 07:01:05 PDT 2009
I believe it was the movie de vinci code that references how many symbols are used in negative ways.the swastika for example is a Celtic symbol but because of one mans use it is now seen as a symbol of hate.. as the say..the confederate flag is another example..it's all in eye of beholder..is is proper o display in parade?maybe not but that's like wearing furs..you have to pick the right place to wear or display anything that can be a possible excuse to bring anger,hate,and nasty comments on yourself...
--- On Thu, 7/23/09, Steven Chang <moondragn at gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Steven Chang <moondragn at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MR] pentagrams in devices
> To: atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 7:44 AM
> And this is why the guy is still
> confused about the SCA, because the
> people who replied to him failed to explain anything at
> all. Instead,
> they were trying to change his point of view on
> Christianity.
>
> You get into trouble when you dabble in another man's
> faith. All that
> needed to be said was: "The SCA is a group of people that
> love history
> and like to dress up pretending they are living back in the
> days of
> King Arthur"
>
> Thats it. Heck that would have made it clear to him even if
> he was
> dumb as a brick, which sounds like he is. The issue
> actually was
> confused by the extra stuff that was dished into his small
> brain. I
> think it got overloaded, and the rest of what was said went
> right over
> his head.
>
>
> On 7/23/09, Wayne Remes <wremes at carolina.rr.com>
> wrote:
> > As much as I hate to admit it, the people complaining
> of allowing the
> > Pentagram into SCA heraldy have a point.
> >
> > Sacred Stone within the last year have had local
> police stop by SCA events
> > at least twice. They were there to investigate
> complaints of animal
> > sacrifice made specifically against the SCA from
> locals. It so happens that
> > an actual Pagan organization also uses the campground,
> and some of the
> > locals seem to have confused us with them. Of course
> these local bozos don't
> > really know if the Pagans were actually performing
> animal sacrifice, as they
> > are actually too small minded (and truthfully probably
> too scared) to
> > approach anybody to ask what it is they are seeing.
> The probem with us
> > fighting locals perceptions that the SCA is involved
> with devil worship and
> > withcraft is that it is rumor speading underground via
> word of mouth and the
> > internet, so usually by the time we hear of it...rumor
> and inuendo has
> > already done it's dirty work. Luckily we had a (1 and
> only 1, ein, uno,
> > hanna, ichi) local stop by Kingdom Assessments
> to check out a story
> > accusing us of being Pagans and involved with
> witchcraft in a local right
> > wing online blogsite. The lady drove up, rolled down
> the window of her car
> > and asked me "Are youall involved with witchcraft and
> Paganism?"
> > (Incidently, I had the same question asked of me by a
> lady when my Canton
> > walked past her as we particpated in a
> Thanksgiving/Christmas Parade about 3
> > years ago. At the parade it was probably the black
> cloaks worn by many of us
> > as it was cold in late November).
> >
> > As you can see we, as an organization have enough
> problems getting lumped in
> > with Pagan activities now, without dealing with what
> mainstream conservative
> > Christian America's thoughts on a pentagram means to
> them when they see it
> > displayed prominatly in heraldy used by us. It is not
> the SCA's job to
> > witness for Paganism, or attempt to improve current
> Pagan-Christian
> > relations. Neither are we a historical evangical
> organization bringing the
> > truth of Pagan culture to the world in general. We
> gather together among
> > ourselves to promote historical knowledge and skills
> AMOUNG OURSELVES. Yes
> > we do historical demos at places other than our
> events....but that is not
> > really our purpose, otherwise we would be advertising
> our activities in
> > mainstream publications instead of our SCA specific
> publications.
> >
> > Below is the contents of the Blog in question. The
> idiot who started this
> > thread was so stupid he didn't even realize that the
> link that he visited
> > and got riled up about was not even an SCA link, or
> mentioned the SCA. Nor
> > did he bother to google SCA after seeing our
> sign...and still, nearly 3
> > weeks after a post by our Baronial Seneschal
> explaining who and what we are,
> > hasn't biothered to say "Oh..I'm sorry I prefer to
> keep my head up my butt
> > 24/7, otherwise I might actually have a clue, and or
> learn something.
> > (hopefully the cut and pasted blogs will make it thru
> the Yahoo filters.
> >
> > Axel
> > Pagans Event on Center
> Road « Return to Topics
> >
> Sameolestuff Posted 1:32,
> 06/20/2009
> > I had no
> idea that we had an organized event for witchcrafters
> > right here in our own back yard on Center Road, near
> Mitchell Chapel Church
> > - see
> > http://ncpagansoutdoors.com/ncpo/index.php?main_page=document_general_info&cPath=10_15&products_id=13
> > . I thought the castle that you could see from the
> road was a paintball
> > building, and a sign says, SCA - I thought that might
> be Sons of the
> > Confederacy or something - boy was I wrong!!! What
> kinds of things are they
> > really doing down there when they hold these "events"?
> Do the citizens of
> > Yadkin know about this and its inclusion of children?
> Someone should get rid
> > of these heathens from this county and let them take
> their heathen
> > activities somewhere else!!!
> >
> > walks the
> talk Posted 2:9, 06/20/2009
> > I suppose
> if you really would like to know what goes on at the
> > 'event', you could go and see first-hand. Some pagan
> ways are with us
> > today..like going to church on Sunday. Sunday is the
> day that pagans
> > celebrate the sun. SATURDAY is the Sabbath..the Bible
> says so.
> > I don't
> think that 'someone' can 'get rid of' them..they are not
> > doing anything illegal.
> >
> >
> BlizzardAge Posted 2:27, 06/20/2009
> > Why get
> mad at the pagans? They're superstitious and believe in
> > magic, just like Christians.
> >
> >
> coollittlehot Posted 7:13,
> 06/20/2009
> > It's kind
> of funny how big a problem you have with Christians,
> > Blizzard. Every chance you get...hmm... I hope you
> have a good Saturday.
> >
> >
> wizard Posted 8:5, 06/20/2009
> > All this
> place does, is live like people in medieval times while
> > they are there. They even wear period dress. If you
> don't believe me, do
> > like I did one Saturday, go by and visit. You will be
> amazed. Plus, you will
> > be very welcome. This place has been there for years,
> so what have these
> > people done to pi$$ Sameolestuff off?
> >
> >
> Grams Posted 8:39, 06/20/2009
> > The
> community tried to stop this from happening BEFORE it
> started
> > - unsuccessfully I might add.
> >
> >
> Sameolestuff Posted 9:50,
> 06/20/2009
> >
> Walkthewalk - check out their website and
> you can see what goes on
> > if you read EVERYTHING. The day that people worship is
> irrevelant, and they
> > may not be doing anything illegal, but I certainly
> wouldn't want my family
> > participating in something that. Invite them to church
> where they can find a
> > way that will lead them to Heaven rather than hell.
> Blizzard - Christians
> > don't believe in magic. Wizard - it's only been at the
> Center Rd location
> > for 2 years and I'll bet most people are like me -
> they didn't know what it
> > was or what it stands for. I'm not mad at them - I
> just don't want them near
> > me! Grams - who owned the land? Wish I'd known sooner
> about the community
> > trying to stop it and I would have tried to lend some
> support against it
> > too! Ya'll have a good day!
> >
> >
> Sameolestuff Posted 10:7,
> 06/20/2009
> > oh forgot
> - Wizard - how did you get in? There's a Posted sign
> > there now so I just assumed that you couldn't just
> walk in off the street?
> >
> >
> wizard Posted 13:28, 06/20/2009
> > The place
> is open to the public. There are a lot of visitors come
> > to watch how things used be done in medieval times.
> There was nothing pagen
> > or religious that I have seen. These people have done
> nothing to anyone in
> > this county.
> >
> Sameolestuff, you should go by one
> Saturday. How in the world can
> > you be scared of something you know nothing about. I
> live within a mile from
> > the place, and I have never heard of anyone trying to
> stop it or complain
> > about the place.
> >
> >
> sameolestuff Posted 15:34,
> 06/20/2009
> > Wizard -
> Not scared just don't want it around if it is witchcraft
> > and the like. I guess some of their website
> activities' descriptions may be
> > misleading then? Wonder why they have a Posted sign if
> it's public?
> >
> >
> libertarian Posted 15:52,
> 06/20/2009
> > sameole
> >
> > don't
> believe in magic??
> >
> > Mark
> 16:18
> >
> > the
> Christian religion is based on Pagan beliefs....you, like
> most
> > Christians, don't even know the history of your
> religion.....
> >
> > Jesus
> Christ is the personification of the Sun in the age of
> > Pisces....
> >
> > what's
> the difference between what you are doing and what they are
> > doing?
> >
> >
> libertarian Posted 15:54,
> 06/20/2009
> > lets rid
> our society of Pagans and Marijuana....NOW!!!!!
> >
> > Nature
> 7 Posted 16:38, 06/20/2009
> > What is
> the big deal, sameole? No one is forcing you or anyone
> > else to go. 'Heathens'? geez.
> >
> Medieval/Pagan..it's history. There are
> re-enactments all over the
> > world.
> > wizard:
> You are so right.
> >
> >
> Sameolestuff Posted 19:33,
> 06/20/2009
> > Nature7 -
> Webster's Dictionary - "pagan: 1. n., a heathen, esp.
> > one who worshipped the gods of ancient Greece and
> Rome". I rest my case on
> > that one. And Libertarian - my Christian belief
> started with, "God created
> > the heavens and the earth", and Jesus Christ, not some
> Sun and Pisces
> > garbage, is someone who died so that we could live
> forever if we believe on
> > Him. And if you want to smoke your marijuana, more
> power to ya. I ain't even
> > gonna go there. My whole point is that I (and probably
> many others) didn't
> > know little ole Yadkin could be the seat of one of
> these Heathen, oh excuse
> > me, Pagan activities. Ya'll have a good evening! LOL
> >
> >
> libertarian Posted 19:43,
> 06/20/2009
> > wow, you
> got me there.....you pulled out the bible!!!
> >
> > tomorrow,
> SUNday, ask your preacher why you go to church on the
> > first day of the week instead of the last.....
> >
> >
> 1st_amendment_rights Posted 20:17,
> 06/20/2009
> > I like
> your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians
> > are so unlike your Christ.
> > Mohandas
> Gandhi
> >
> >
> > I'm
> Someone 2 Posted 0:16, 06/21/2009
> >
> Witchcraft correlates with Wicken not
> Paganism, there is a
> > difference. And why does God and the Sun have to be
> two different entities,
> > they're both metaphors after all. Happy Summer
> Solstice everyone!
> >
> >
> sameolestuff Posted 0:22,
> 06/21/2009
> > What's
> the price of eggs in China have to do with anything, e.g.,
> > going to church on Sat vs. Sunday? I thought this
> thread was about the SCA,
> > not worship day. Libertarian - just stick to your good
> Obama jokes - they
> > made better sense.
> >
> >
> libertarian Posted 9:21, 06/21/2009
> > happy
> solstice!
> >
> > SBD
> Posted 19:3, 06/21/2009
> > lib, it
> appears that you don't like the way we live our daily
> > lives down here. fyi, there is no guard at the county
> lines to stop you from
> > leaving.
> >
> >
> libertarian Posted 21:0, 06/21/2009
> > SBD
> >
> > who cares
> how you live your daily lives....as long as you don't
> > harm anybody and pay your own way, have at it....
> >
> > anyway,
> what did i say to make you say that?
> >
> > let the
> Pagans have theirs, just like the Christians....i don't
> > have to believe either though it is interesting....
> >
> >
> TrueAmerican Posted 0:43,
> 06/22/2009
> > Pagans
> are treehuggers, liberals, and vegetarians. In other words
> > IDIOTS!
> >
> >
> BlizzardAge Posted 1:17, 06/22/2009
> >
> TrueAmerican:
> >
> > Hahaha.
> You lump vegetarians in with liberals and tree huggers. I
> > know a conservative who is a vegetarian. It doesn't
> mean you're a liberal.
> > The few vegetarians I know don't eat meat because they
> are either grossed
> > out by the idea of eating dead flesh or think eating
> meat is less healthy
> > that plants. There are, of course, those who don't eat
> meat because they
> > think it's cruelty to animals. So what?
> >
> >
> libertarian Posted 20:45,
> 06/22/2009
> >
> TrueAmerican
> >
> > it's ok
> to hug a tree.....be kind to nature, it's where we came
> > from....creationist or not....
> >
> >
> AtheistmovedEast Posted 13:10,
> 06/23/2009
> > I loath
> stupid religious nuts that don't even know much about
> > their own religion.
> >
> > One
> reason I will never live in YC again.
> >
> > Almost
> every single holiday that Christians celebrate are pagan in
> > origin. Any that aren't still have heavy pagan
> influence. And pagans aren't
> > witches.
> >
> > Ignorant
> Nuts.
> >
> >
> sameolestuff Posted 11:45,
> 06/24/2009
> >
> Vegetarian-bashing? Who cares about
> anyone's diet! LOL I still
> > wonder why this group chose little ole Yadkin since
> some of the main honchos
> > are from the mountains - guess they didn't want to be
> found out in Boone or
> > Ashe co!
> >
> > And
> pagans aren't associated with witches? According to the
> > website in the first posting above, one person is one:
> "Sarah" [Monroe] "is
> > a natural Pagan Witch.....
> > Their
> continuing ideas have gone into the planning for PWW's and
> > Hocus Pocus Focus." And if it's not associated with
> wicca, if you do a
> > search on "hocus pocus focus", witches, wicca items,
> etc. will be displayed.
> >
> > From the
> Yadkin site, "Weapons, of any kind, that can have a duel
> > purpose as ritual items or for ceremonial use are
> welcome but must be peace
> > tied (visibly tied securely or positively retained) at
> all times unless
> > being used for ritual or ceremonial purposes and must
> be re-peace tied after
> > use. " - what do they use knives for in their
> ceremonies? Just
> > curious...."Also part of the sabbat ritual was a magic
> circle that had been
> > traced on the ground by the tip of a magical knife.
> These circles were
> > created to gather the witches’ special power" -
> there we go about witches
> > again - LOL
> >
> > And
> AtheistmovedEast, glad you're there and not here anymore!
> My
> > Christian celebrations start with Christ but aetheists
> just don't quite get
> > that part! Just call me "Ignorant" - what's that
> saying about sticks and
> > stones may.... ??
> >
> > Have a
> good one!
> >
> >
> coollittlehot Posted 11:59,
> 06/24/2009
> > I was
> just reading the website. It made me think about an episode
> > of King of the Hill. Do you guys remember when Bobby
> started playing with
> > Tarot cards and then got hooked up with a bunch of
> folks like this? They had
> > names like "Dragonzmajick Ravenstag" and "Lady Puma
> Moonlily" too! Which one
> > do you think will be drinking the dog blood? LOL
> >
> >
> RAMedIfIDoRAMedIfIDon't Posted
> 13:23, 06/24/2009
> > This was
> nothing more than an attention getting event and it looks
> > like they succeeded. Ignore them and they will move
> on.
> >
> >
> easternbender Posted 15:24,
> 06/24/2009
> > If any of
> you had bothered to do a little reading instead of
> > assuming you would see that it is a campground open to
> anyone who wishes to
> > rent it. Pagans rented it for a weekend retreat, that
> is what the link in
> > the original posting showed ...SCA is the Society for
> Creative Anacronism.
> > They are basically Era recreators just like all those
> who participate in the
> > civil war reenactments all over the south. The
> difference is they re-enact
> > middle ages. " The SCA is an international
> organization dedicated to
> > researching and re-creating the arts and skills of
> pre-17th-century Europe.
> > Our "Known World" consists of 19 kingdoms, with over
> 30,000 members residing
> > in countries around the world. Members, dressed in
> clothing of the Middle
> > Ages and Renaissance, attend events which feature
> tournaments, royal courts,
> > feasts, dancing, various classes & workshops, and
> more.” http://www.sca.org/
> > This
> would be a fabulous opportunity for those who have read,
> King
> > Arthur, Merlin, Robinhood, 3 Musketeers or other
> wonderful literature, to
> > take your children so they can see it come alive.
> Instead of trying to stop
> > something you have no idea about try contacting them
> and getting educated.
> > It could benefit your children in the long run instead
> of them being lost in
> > the bad education system, try supplementing their
> education with something
> > of this nature that is creative, educational and
> attention catching.
> >
> >
> >
> easternbender Posted 15:31,
> 06/24/2009
> > Your teen
> kids can do a heck of a lot worse things than join an
> > organization with this kind of behavior clause and
> teaching ability.
> >
> > http://www.sca.org/officers/chatelain/pdf/SCATeens.pdf
> >
> > I wish
> half these holligans running around Yadkin County would be
> > forced to join and learn some manners and respect
> instead of the mess they
> > pull on a daily basis.
> >
> >
> >
> easternbender Posted 15:44,
> 06/24/2009
> > Looks
> like they had lots of fun to me..
> > http://www.psalterydreams.com/news/?p=132
> >
> >
> UnusPopulus Posted 9:46, 06/28/2009
> > Perhaps I
> can shed some light on this. I'm actually a part of this
> > organization, and the owner of the property you are
> mentioning is a very
> > good friend and mentor to me. Your accusations of
> witchcraft and sacrifice
> > are baseless, and it's odd that you could make such
> unfounded claims without
> > any sort of prior knowledge. The society's purpose is
> to recreate the Middle
> > Ages through dress, demeanor and period events, and
> there are people of
> > every background and religious following involved.
> >
> > fiesta
> pantalones Posted 16:35, 06/28/2009
> >
> UnusPopulus
> >
> > Are you
> "Dragonzmajick Ravenstag" or "Lady Puma Moonlily"? LOL
> >
> >
> libertarian Posted 23:27,
> 06/28/2009
> > http://www.pocm.info/
> >
> >
> sameolestuff Posted 15:27,
> 06/29/2009
> >
> UnusPopulus - if this is just Middle Ages
> recreation why are there
> > so many other activities associated with WICCA that
> are mentioned on many
> > webpostings/sites? Sounds like there's more happening
> than just guys running
> > around in kilts. I was checking the weather on
> Accuweather.com, and saw the
> > posting about the "Booneville" event this past weekend
> - they can't even
> > spell Boonville - and other related articles about
> this "religion or
> > whatever you want to call it" - does the Booneville
> event have sacrificing
> > in it? Just curious...have a bewitching good day!
> >
> > SBD
> Posted 15:40, 06/29/2009
> > If this
> was something like a
> >
> Renaissance fair I went to one outside of
> Charlotte twice and saw
> > nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact I have
> been planning to go
> > back. If this is something different please advise.
> >
> >
> lamont Posted 18:1, 06/29/2009
> > I think
> it would be the same as civil war reenactment.
> >
> > walks the
> talk Posted 3:8, 06/30/2009
> > I have
> friends that are part of the Kingdom of Caid...(medieval).
> > Yes, it is history. Yes, there are re-enactments.
> Also, there is
> > volunteering to do good things..like this>
> >
> > http://rose.sca-caid.org/pinkribbon/index.php
> >
> >
> >
> >
> OOgie Posted 11:51, 07/02/2009
> > bliz
> mentions being a legal scholar. A lawyer named Lee Strobel-
> > from Chicago- was once the legal reporter for a
> Chicago newspaper- has
> > written a book "Evidence That Demands A Verdict". I
> recommend this book to
> > you.
> >
> >
> OOgie Posted 17:39, 07/02/2009
> > The book
> title listed above was written by Josh McDowell. It is a
> > good book. I also recommend the Lee Stroble books,
> different titles.
> > # The
> Case for Faith: A Journalist Investigates the Toughest
> > Objections to Christianity, October 1, 2000,
> Zondervan, ISBN 0310220157
> >
> >
> KateRauhauserSmith Posted 23:52,
> 07/11/2009
> > Hello,
> everyone. I had never heard of this Web site before today
> > or would have answered some of your questions earlier.
> I'm president of the
> > local branch of the SCA...called the Barony of the
> Sacred Stone it reaches
> > from the VA border to the SC border encompassing Mt.
> Airy, Elkin,
> > Winston-Salem, Greensboro, Salisbury, Statesville,
> Hickory, Gastonia and
> > Charlotte. I appreciate the initiative of the lady who
> stopped by our event
> > at the Elchenburg Castle site today.
> >
> >
> Sameolestuff, you've assumed that all the
> groups that use
> > Elchengurg Castle are the same or have the same
> purpose. You are mistaken.
> >
> > The SCA,
> as some others in this thread have pointed out, is an
> > officially registered educational non-profit
> organization that researches
> > and recreates many aspects of history prior to 1600.
> We hold events for our
> > own edification and play. We also provide demos for
> libraries, schools and
> > other organizations on aspects of Medieval history.
> >
> > We are
> quite specifically not a religious organization. Religious
> > activities are not permitted to be part of our events,
> Christian, Muslim,
> > Hindi, Pagan or anything else.
> >
> > NC Pagans
> Outdoors is a completely separate organization though
> > several of us have met through our common use of the
> Elchenburg site. They
> > are good decent folks who have a different view of the
> world. Yes, some are
> > witches but that is a term that has very little
> resemblance to any
> > description I've heard in local churches. There is no
> Devil worship ... in
> > fact most of those folks don't believe in the Devil
> since he is a player in
> > the Judeo/Christian religions and not theirs.
> >
> >
> Regardless, though, they are not the SCA.
> Please check out
> > SCA.org, Atlantia.SCA.org or
> SacredStone.Atlantia.SCA.org to learn more
> > about the SCA.
> >
> > One note,
> the camp ground is private property, which is why it's
> > posted with no trespassing signs. There have been
> several instances of theft
> > at the site. Groups rent the site and have access to
> it that way.
> >
> > SCA
> events are open to anyone who wants to participate. If you
> > come there is a gate fee (remember we're a non-profit
> and we have to cover
> > our expenses) and you are required to dress in an
> "attempt" at pre-1600
> > clothing. We have some loaner garb but it's always
> best to contact our
> > newcomer officer (we call that office Chatalaine or
> Castelain) so we can
> > make sure to have clothing on site that will fit you.
> >
> > I hope
> this has been helpful in addressing the concerns some folks
> > seem to have. Please feel free to contact me at
> Kate.Rauhauser.Smith AT
> > gmail.com if you have any other questions.
> >
> > Be
> well....Kate
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: <nodecaf at nodecaf.com>
> > To: <atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 7:53 AM
> > Subject: Re: [MR] pentagrams in devices
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gezz – what a firestorm of hoopla.
> > > <sadly shakes head> Folks here sure have a
> way of sucking the
> > > joy out of what I thought was a bright happy
> moment for tolerance.
> > > Perhaps the SCA is not as open-minded as the
> credit that I gave it.
> > > After reading page after page of comment &
> debate, I have to
> > > sadly wonder if this is an appropriate place for
> my son and I – gee
> > > I hope so, but quite frankly now I am a little
> scared. From what I
> > > have read here perhaps there should be a notice
> on the front door of
> > > the SCA that reads, “No real Pagans – No real
> Rom – Christians
> > > preferred.”
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Like it or not, the symbols of both the
> > > pentacle and the pentagram have historical
> precedent in period. By
> > > choosing to lift the ban on such, perhaps the
> heralds also chose to
> > > look at real 21st century appropriateness and
> > > consequences. Would the SCA really like to
> portray itself as a
> > > organization flaunting religious discrimination?
> How long would it
> > > last if that was the case?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you are banning one religious
> > > symbol, then ban them all, regardless of use in
> period. [The cross btw was
> > historically used as a European Pagan symbol
> indicating the four
> > > earth elements – earth/air/fire/water. During
> Roman times it became
> > > a symbol of dominance, torture and death – much
> in the same we
> > > modernly see the use of the swastika. Early
> church leaders, did not
> > > use the cross as a symbol. That happened a few
> hundred years late
> > > during the start of mass conversions of the
> country dwellers – i.e.
> > > the “pagans”. The leaders knew of the mixed
> symbolism and message
> > > behind its use, they were not stupid. On one hand
> it was used as, “see its
> > a friendly
> > > familiar “pagan” symbol” – on the other,
> it was used as a
> > > visual strong arm - “convert or be subject to
> death” – the
> > > perfect visual symbol for building a male
> dominate cult among
> > > uneducated pagan masses. To me that is a heck of
> a lot more scary and
> > > offensive than a little star & circle that
> originally had to with
> > > the morning star of Venus. www.symbols.com
> > > for any interested in the history of visual
> symbolism.]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As to those worrying about the real
> > > world consequences of not being able to use a
> campground or meeting
> > > hall because of a star in a circle, remind
> discriminatory hall owners
> > > of reality. Discrimination based on religion in
> this country is a
> > > federal crime. While we may play in the Medieval
> period, we still
> > > have to abide by the laws of modern times.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Oh and while I am on my soapbox [and a
> > > bit riled because of blatant calls here for
> intolerance and
> > > discrimination].... please do not make the
> assumption that all Pagans
> > > are “Wicca with an agenda”. That would be
> like saying all
> > > Christians are Catholic and support the
> Republican party platform to
> > > the letter. As with any group of people,
> there are many views –
> > > none better than any one other. There is within
> the Pagan community a
> > > huge variant, however we seem to have a tolerance
> for all [maybe our
> > > Christan brothers can learn a lesson or maybe
> they have just
> > > forgotten what it was like to be persecuted]. We
> do not draw a circle
> > > to exclude, but rather to include within a large
> family. Do know that
> > > some of us, particularly of Rom / Balkan
> decent, have been here all
> > > along, meaning since the middle ages. Old ways
> have been masked,
> > > shrouded and shielded by also practicing the
> religion of the region
> > > and handed down silently. It is only within my
> lifetime that laws
> > > have changed so that such can be practiced openly
> without the risk of
> > > loosing your children to the state or of being
> jailed just for your
> > > religion. [And gee, how medieval is that.]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tsura.
> > >
> > > [who will now go back to being her quiet ungrumpy
> self]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ========================================================================
> > >
> The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
> > > List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
> > > Submissions: Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> > > Subscriptions:
> > http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/atlantia-atlantia.sca.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> ========================================================================
> >
> The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
> > List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
> > Submissions: Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> > Subscriptions:
> > http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/atlantia-atlantia.sca.org
> >
> ========================================================================
>
> The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
> List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
> Submissions: Atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Subscriptions: http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/listinfo.cgi/atlantia-atlantia.sca.org
>
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