[MR] Authenticity (was pentograms)

[Steven Chang]

I understand your viewpoint to make the SCA more historically
accurate. But you do realize that originally the founders of the SCA
had no such ideas. In fact, they originally didn't even have naming
rules in place nor any requirements for accurate heraldry.

It was the people that followed the founders that specified these rules.

Thats ok. But ultimately it is a balance of fun vs history. So
religion should have NOTHING to do with the SCA. But you can't avoid
that because Christianity took a big part of history. If you were not
in the parts of the midieval world that involved Christianity, then
Paganism had a big part of history as well.

So NEITHER should be ridiculed, they just need to be respected. What
if someone decided to make Swastika's part of their device? It was a
historical symbol used even back in the middle ages by the Chinese.
What if someone took offense to that?

Let the heralds worry about the authenticity. If proof can be provided
that it was used in heraldry then it is up to them to decide whether
or not it SHOULD be used.

If you want to talk about authenticity, what about some of these
cartoon characters on heraldry? They certainly did not have these
particular characters back in the medieval times.

Whatever is decided, there can't be a double standard. If the idea is
to avoid religious symbols, then crosses, which were common in
heraldry, should be disallowed as well.  This is why this overturn was
a good idea, because it does eliminate that particular double
standard.

Certainly we already have guidelines in place for heraldry, and I
think we should just let the heralds do what they know best.

Just remember this... This is a Society of Creative Anachronisms, not
Society of unerring History.

On 7/22/09, Vernon And Susan Willet <willets at bellatlantic.net> wrote:
> To my friends of the SCA, and to the Fair Lydia, in particular, Greetings.
>
> I see my post has touched a nerve and put the "cat among the pigeons", so to
> speak.  If I seemed dismissive, well, I was.  Nor do I apologize for that.
> We claim to be history oriented society but we embrace a large number of
> non-historical concepts.  We are so liberal with our interpretation of
> history that virtually anything goes.  Does anyone remember the "10 foot
> rule".  I think His Majesty has put an effective end to that over the course
> of his many reigns, at least on the field of combat.  Does anyone mourn for
> freon can helms?  Or carpet armour?  Or plastic elf ears?  These are just
> some of the things which make the legitimate reenactors ridcule the SCA.
> The preponderance of overt pagans is another.
>
> If you choose to be a Modern Pagan, by all means, do what you will.  It is,
> after all, the Whole of the Law.  But why should you bring it into a group
> which already has issues with authenticity?  Shall I hold a Mass at an
> event?  I have seen numerous pagan rituals held at events.  Shall I put a
> crucifix on my arms?  Did I mean that there was no representation of a
> pentagram in all of the midlle ages?  Of course not; I am not an idiot, nor
> am I undeucated in history.  But it was, as far as I know, never used as a
> heraldic symbol.  And that is, correct me if I am wrong, the subject under
> discussion.
>
> I rarely join in the discussions on the MerryRose because I am not an active
> participant, any longer, in the SCA.  But sometimes the need to respond
> overwhelms me and I cannot resist it.  If anyone is offended by my remarks,
> take solace in the fact that the probabilities of your meeting me at an
> event are very slim.  If just one of you stopps, thinks about what he/she is
> doing to the credibility of the SCA, and rethinks their position, then all
> of the flaming and (conversely) liberal head-shaking will be justified.  I
> have always espoused unpopular causes.  Ask Sir Corby.
>
> Affectionately,
> Baron Werhener von Ingolstadt
> Former Baron, Caer Mear