[MR] 4/5th Peerage - OMG WILL IT NEVER END?

[Amy Kennedy-Butler]

I think what bothers me the most about the new peerage thing, being both a
Laurel and a Pelican, and knowing that those accolades have been granted in
many kingdoms for these martial activities, is that I feel like they are
telling me that the orders I belong to aren't good enough for them. It is
kind of insulting when there is already a perception out there that some
peerages are more equal than others. It is a slap in the face to the orders
that are already there.

Olwyn ni Chinneidigh, OL, OP

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Barclay, Peter C LTC USA CIO/G6 <
Peter.c.Barclay at us.army.mil> wrote:

> Greetings unto Melchoir from Terafan,
>
>   You stated (in response to another):
> >> 1) 'Rapier is not a society wide activity'
> >   There is a Society Rapier Marshal just like there is a Society
> > Armored Marshal, to me that says the Society seems to think it is
> > indeed a society activity. Look it up :)
>
> These are two completely different statements and they aren't equal.  Just
> because the Society has an "officer" for an activity doesn't make it a
> "society-wide" activity.   It does make it a society activity and certainly
> one that the Board believes has enough activity level (and may be risky
> enough without reasonable *consistent* controls) to find value in having
> someone be responsible for the big picture view.
>
> *I* interpreted the statement "Rapier is not a society wide activty" to be
> a very different statement.   One of the key things about the peerages is
> that they are "international".  If you are a KSCA, you are a knight of the
> *society*, not a knight of kingdom X, and are a knight no matter what
> kingdom you may move to.    At the moment, a rapier peerage is very
> difficult because not every kingdom participates in and has a rapier
> culture.
>
> For those who don't understand much about the peerages, the best document
> explaining them was written by a Western knight/laurel now living in
> Drachenwald.  You can find his (long) article at
> http://www.greydragon.org/library/peerdoc.html
>
> To quote Sir Wiglaf:
> "One thing I can say that the standard is in fact an international
> standard, because it is an international order. If you are knighted in
> Drachenwald, you are a knight in every kingdom on the known world; you are
> KSCA, a knight of the SCA."
>
> So again, it would be very hard (at the moment) to develop a peerage for
> rapier or thrown weapons or equestrian or archery or etc., etc.,  because
> there isn't enough of a true international standard.
>
> Although it is easy to cast out the phrase "there ought to be a 4th
> peerage" and lump all those things together, it poses lots of practical
> problems because it is very difficult to compare archery to rapier to
> equestrian to thrown weapons, etc.   If the first peers are rapier guys and
> the next ones are thrown weapons guys, do cliques start to form within the
> order because "those guys don't have to learn to fight, they just throw
> things at a block of wood..." or "those guys don't have to do hard things
> like train horses, they just wack each other with metal swords..." ??
>  [Those statements are merely meant as examples of what could be said,
> rather than an attempt to disparage thrown weapons or rapier or equestrian.]
>
> Once you realize the difficulty of an all-encompassing 4th peerage, then
> start the arguments that we ought to have *6 or 8 more* peerages:
>  - Rapier
>  - Archery
>  - Shopping
>  - Equestrian
>  - Thrown weapons
>  - Youth activities
>  - Legal wrangling
>  - Coloring/submission of heraldic papers (is that service, art, or a
> special form of combat?)
>
> cheers,
>   Terafan
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: atlantia-bounces at atlantia.sca.org [atlantia-bounces at atlantia.sca.org]
> On Behalf Of Kevin B [melchior at houseblueheron.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:00 PM
> To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: Re: [MR] 4/5th Peerage - OMG WILL IT NEVER END?
>
> Should there be a another peerage for non-armored combat? If it comes
> to pass then I guess there should, if not then I guess not. *shrugs*
> things happen in time for reasons I for one shall just wait and see.
>
> There that's done, I would however like to address a few points. "Why
> Melchior, why bother?" because these are opinions and non-legitimate
> arguments, and I feel the need to dispel them. In this I will use the
> term rapier as that is what has been directly discussed. Feel free to
> replace it with whatever flips your fancy [As appropriate] :)
>
> 1) 'Rapier is not a society wide activity'
>   There is a Society Rapier Marshal just like there is a Society
> Armored Marshal, to me that says the Society seems to think it is
> indeed a society activity. Look it up :)
>
> <snip>
>
> In short: don't poo-poo on people because they play the game
> differently than you do.
>
> Fini~
>
> -Melchior zum grauen Wolf
> ========================================================================
>                   The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
>    List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
>  Submissions: Atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
> Subscriptions: http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/atlantia
> ========================================================================
>                   The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside
>    List Info: http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
>  Submissions: Atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
> Subscriptions: http://seahorse.atlantia.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/atlantia
>