[MR] Fwd: [RN] Fwd: Re: [rapier_in_SCA] Re: Buff coat trials

Tue Apr 21 22:45:18 PDT 2009

One of the forwarded messages seems to have fallen apart and lost its body.
Here is one guess as to which it might have been

------ Original Message ------ 
 Received: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:01:49 AM EDT 
 From: razness at yahoo.com 
 To: rapier_in_SCA at yahoogroups.com 
 Subject: Re: [rapier_in_SCA] Re: [RN] Buff coat trials 

  Regarding leather being hot: Mind you, I'm a study group of 1, but it has
been my experience that my buff coat is actually the coolest (temp) armor I've
worn, both heavies and rapier. A proper buff coat will have a linen half
lining that makes all the difference. It seems to work like this, the sun hits
the leather, and the lining allows air to move behind the leather so you are
in effect fighting in the shade. I don't really know the physics behind this,
those are just my observations fighting out in the Caidan/Aeten sun. Mind you
we don't get oppressive humidity so your mileage may very. 
Raz- 
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile  
  From: "David Chessler"  
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 01:48:43 -0400 
To: RapierNet - Fencing in the SCA<sca-rapier at lists.ansteorra.org> 
Subject: [rapier_in_SCA] Re: [RN] Buff coat trials 

------ Original Message ------     
 Received: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 01:12:49 AM EDT     
 From: James Crouchet <james at crouchet.com>     
 To: RapierNet - Fencing in the SCA <sca-rapier at lists.ansteorra.org>     
 Subject: Re: [RN] Buff coat trials     

 > Well, I have never seen a buff coat in a museum made of suede. Instead    

 > they were made of rather substantial top grain leather, typically     
 > oiled ox skin.     

 Ox skin is documented. I thought that the "suede" refered to the skin being  

 used smooth side in. A lot of boots used to be made that way for scuff     
 resistance (to protect the hair side, which is the strongest side).     

 The idea, after all, was to turn glancing musket balls,     
 > pike thrusts and sword strokes, though they would not, of course, stop    

 > a direct shot or thrust.     
 >     
 > An accurately made buff coat would far exceed our standards for     
 > puncture resistance. The stuff being sold as re-production -- who     
 > knows? But if it passes the punch test then it is good enough. Be     
 > aware that leather is much less stout when wet so that may be     
 > something to consider if you tend to sweat out your armor. Also,     
 > leather it is not exactly cool and comfy so it may not make great     
 > summer armor.     
 >     
 > BTW, if you got your information from a wikipedia article, I'll say     
 > that article has some significant flaws.     

 I got some information from Wikipedia, but most of it from a variety of
museum     
 websites.     
 >     
 > Buff leather protective gear for soldiers is certainly period but I     
 > suspect most of the buff coats for sale out there would have styling     
 > more appropriate for the English Civil War period rather than the     
 > Elizabethan and Tudor periods.     
 >     
 > Christian Doré     

 Indeed, the reason I posted my original query was that I wasn't finding     
 anything on elizabethan websites. It turns out that most of the documentation

 is for the Civil War period, and even later. The coats were apparently
fashion     
 statements, and in use into the 18th C.     

 >     
 >     
 > On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 8:17 PM, David Chessler <chessler at usa.net> wrote:  

 > > The SCA considers 2 mm (4 oz) leather "puncture resistant."  Information 

 on     
 > > commercially available buff coats indicates that they are made of 3.5 to 

 4     
 > > mm. leather, which one British seller says is the thickest made. (Tandy  

 > > sells 4-5 mm)  I have seen one indication that, in period, buff coats    

 were     
 > > made of 1/8 inch (3 mm) suede.     
 > >     
 > > My shop apron is made of 1.56 mm suede, of no especially good quality.   

 (It     
 > > was a cheap one). I put it in my drop tester. It passed two drops with   

 > > barely a scuff mark.     
 > >     
 > >     
 > > --     
 > >     
 > > YIS     
 > >     
 > > Davitt il Bigollo da Pisa     
 > > Erudit de l'Academie de Espee de Atlantia     
 > > Storvik (rapier)     
 > > Roxbury Mill (other things)     
 > >     
 > >_______________________________________________     
 > > Sca-rapier mailing list     
 > > Sca-rapier at lists.ansteorra.org     
 > > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-rapier-ansteorra.org     
 > >     
 > >     
 >_______________________________________________     
 > Sca-rapier mailing list     
 > Sca-rapier at lists.ansteorra.org     
 > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-rapier-ansteorra.org     
 >     

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