[MR] Permanent Crown event site

chagankhulan at clan-whitewing.org chagankhulan at clan-whitewing.org
Tue Apr 14 14:16:07 PDT 2009 

I would think our rules have already placed a solution to the issue of
obnoxious autocrats in our hands. I believe I have this right. The
theoretical deputy autocrat, per the rules, is the seneschal of the
hosting group. Should the autocrat fail to do their job or be rendered
incapable of doing their job it falls to the deputy - i.e.Seneschal. That
same seneschal has the right, I believe, to request any problem individual
leave the site or be removed by mundane authorities.
I would think that it would be the Seneschal's duty - if such an instance
would occur - to confirm the problem with the site rep and remove the
autocrat immediately.  Frankly, good autocrats are easier to find than
sites!

Chagan



> well there is something to be said about presenting possible extremes and
> something to be said about presenting the absurd.
>
> on that note, im not sure how a local group could be compensated for
> losing
> a site.  we have lost sites before because of severe infractions from some
> attendees and i cant imagine a vehicle in place to compensate the group
> where the site resides.
>
> a hypothetical crazed autocrat that jumps into an event site and is rude
> and
> hateful towards the site owner could be controlled by some local deputy
> autocrat if that person is there when it happens i guess.  but i also
> guess
> that anyone (staff titled or not, local or not) could do that same
> stepping
> in should such a thing actually happen.  i guess.  but having the deputy
> autocrat local person certainly isnt a guarantee to "avoid the problem"
> since anyone can crack at any time and attack a site owner.  so, um, im
> not
> sure we can protect local groups from the potential of outside autocrat
> hateful types stepping and ruining relationships with site owners no more
> than we can protect local groups from having one of these hateful autocrat
> types being local themselves.  i do know that to date several groups have
> used bjp and when i spoke with the director before we choose the site for
> our coronation he said that the sca was one of the easiest groups he has
> had
> the pleasure of working with and complimented us on how we have left his
> site each time.  i did run across one of their employees on sunday morning
> who laughed and said how easy we (the sca) made her job as she didnt have
> to
> do a thing in the kitchen to straighten it out or clean it up.  great job
> to
> those guys by the way!!  so, thus far, we have continued to enjoy strong
> relationships with site owners because of how much sca folks care about
> the
> sites we use.  its just one more testament to our society.
>
> regards
> logan
>
> "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it
> was
> hell."
> Harry S Truman
> "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his
> vengeance need not be feared"
> Niccolo Machiavelli
> www.ebonwoulfe.com
> www.fighterpractice.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> [mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Becky
> McEllistrem
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 1:03 PM
> To: atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: Re: [MR] Permanent Crown event site
>
>
> I don't believe in ignoring hypothetical situations just because they
> haven't happened.
>
> I also don't get bogged down in arguments about numbers and percentages.
>
> I had a legal friend who used to say "that's not a concern because there's
> never been a lawsuit in the history of the USA about that before".
>
> We should consider all possible concerns and in a society of courtesy work
> to prevent possible problems.
>
> I do appreciate the listening skills though.
>
> Rebecca
>
> --- On Tue, 4/14/09, logan <logan at ebonwoulfe.com> wrote:
>
>> From: logan <logan at ebonwoulfe.com>
>> Subject: Re: [MR] Permanent Crown event site
>> To: atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> Date: Tuesday, April 14, 2009, 12:38 AM
>> and not ignoring legitimate questions
>> asked when one raises concerns is also
>> important.  you stated a concern about crazed
>> autocrats running roughshod
>> over local site owners to which i responded with a question
>> you have yet to
>> answer.  so, i pose it again in hopes that you will
>> educate me about your
>> concerns.  so perhaps you will take a moment to help
>> me understand.  you
>> seem to take exception over people questioning those who
>> voice concerns over
>> hypothetical questions posed in the fashion of chicken
>> little and the sky.
>> i can understand that.  however, when a hypothetical
>> situation is posted
>> without any supporting facts its acceptable for people to
>> call it to task
>> and demand some level of support or withdrawal.  in
>> that vein i have copied
>> the question here:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> [mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org]
>> On Behalf Of logan
>> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 6:37 PM
>> To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
>> Subject: Re: [MR] outside autocrats
>>
>> i didnt realize that such a problem existed.  how
>> often has this happened
>> rebecca?
>>
>> logan
>>
>> "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and
>> they thought it was
>> hell."
>> Harry S Truman
>> "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so
>> severe that his
>> vengeance need not be feared"
>> Niccolo Machiavelli
>> www.ebonwoulfe.com
>> www.fighterpractice.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> [mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org]
>> On Behalf Of Becky
>> McEllistrem
>> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:28 AM
>> To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
>> Subject: [MR] outside autocrats
>>
>>
>> I'm not digging my heels in but I do have questions.
>>
>> Say an outside autocrat comes into a local group and uses
>> the local group's
>> site.  The outside autocrat chooses this time to be a
>> tyrant (because that
>> never happens) and is rude and hateful to the site
>> owner.  The site owner
>> decides after a weekend of a jerk that they're completely
>> fed up with SCA,
>> cancel contracts and kicks SCA off site forever.  Now
>> the local group has
>> lost a site after carefully cultivating a relationship for
>> a long time.  Yes
>> one incident CAN lose a site.
>>
>> How is the local group compensated for the loss of the
>> site?  The only way I
>> can see to avoid this problem is to have a local group as
>> at least a deputy
>> autocrat at all times.  That way the local
>> relationship is still protected.
>> If an outside autocrat fails in a large or medium way, it's
>> still the local
>> group's mess to clean up late Sunday or Monday anyway.
>>
>> Rebecca
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> [mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org]
>> On Behalf Of Becky
>> McEllistrem
>> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 9:12 PM
>> To: atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> Subject: Re: [MR] Permenant Crown event site
>>
>>
>> Discussions do much better when we're not mocking each
>> other.
>>
>> And it's a very serious concern that doesn't go away
>> because we deny its
>> existence.
>>
>> I'm surprised we're so flippant about concerns towards each
>> others' sites
>> while talking about how difficult it is to find
>> sites.  There's something
>> hypocritical about that.
>>
>> A society of courtesy is not just about courtesy to
>> royals.  A society of
>> courtesy is also about courtesy to each other.
>>
>> Rebecca
>>
>> --- On Mon, 4/13/09, Adeliza of Bristol <adeliza at bellsouth.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > From: Adeliza of Bristol <adeliza at bellsouth.net>
>> > Subject: Re: [MR] Permenant Crown event site
>> > To: atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> > Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 9:05 PM
>> > Were this a discussion about a
>> > hypothetical situation or trying to pin down all the
>> > Kingdom's events, you may have a point. But it isn't.
>> This
>> > is specifically a discussion about Crown Tourney being
>> tied
>> > down to BJ Penn. What may or may not happen with
>> other
>> > events, groups and sites need not be considered at
>> this
>> > time.
>> >
>> > The person currently with the best working
>> relationship
>> > with BJ Penn does not live in the group the site is
>> located
>> > in. So, requiring the local group to get involved and
>> cough
>> > up a contact person to effectively replace the
>> perfectly
>> > excellent contact person in place makes no sense at
>> all, and
>> > might actually be a bigger danger to loosing the site
>> than
>> > simply letting things be. Now, if this is going to
>> stress
>> > the local group, it should have been illustrated last
>> > weekend. Black Diamond came down and ran the event.
>> Did it
>> > cause excessive or unnecessary stress on the local
>> group?
>> > THAT is what we need to hear.
>> >
>> > Making the assuption that the group who lives where
>> the
>> > site is will always be the best contact is not
>> logical.
>> > King's Mountain is in Nottinghill Coill, but Sacred
>> Stone
>> > used the site constantly for years and had an
>> incredible
>> > working relationship with them (I actually knew one
>> Ranger
>> > on a first name basis). The inability to get a date on
>> their
>> > calendar is the only reason it stopped being used so
>> often,
>> > to my knowledge. Should Nottinghill have been forced
>> to come
>> > up with a single contact person and everyone made to
>> rely on
>> > them? Why?
>> >
>> > It may cause stress, it may add a level of
>> difficulty,
>> > frogs may rain down on us from the heavens too. I
>> believe
>> > this last weekend will best show us how things will be
>> and
>> > won't be, and what problems need to be addressed
>> first. It
>> > makes far more sense to look back and see what the
>> facts are
>> > than try to predict the future and avoid every single
>> > possible flaw.
>> >
>> > Anyone from either Black Diamond or Windmasters care
>> to
>> > tell us all what kind of strain it put on them? How
>> did it
>> > effect things that the primary contact person lives
>> in
>> > Sacred Stone? What do those specifically involved in
>> this
>> > event site and its location feel might be problematic.
>> This
>> > is information I would find more useful than guessing
>> at
>> > road blocks.
>> >
>> > Adeliza
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Message: 6
>> > > Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:29:53 -0700 (PDT)
>> > > From: Becky McEllistrem
>> > > Subject: Re: [MR] Permenant Crown event site
>> > > To: atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
>> >
>> > > Message-ID: <927256.67668.qm at web31807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>> >
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > The welfare of the Kingdom needs to have
>> some
>> > priority
>> > > > here. Yes, it is important to keep the
>> groups and
>> >
>> > > > individuals in mind, but throwing the baby
>> out
>> > with the
>> > > > bathwater makes no sense.
>> > >
>> > > Nobody's saying throw the baby out with the
>> bathwater
>> > hon. We're saying it is
>> > > just common sense that more stress is going to
>> happen
>> > to the local group whether
>> > > that's the plan or not and pretending it doesn't
>> won't
>> > make the issue go away.
>> > > There should be a local contact on staff since it
>> does
>> > ultimately fall onto the
>> > > locals to clean up anything left after the rest
>> of the
>> > kingdom has returned
>> > > home.
>> > >
>> > > When I was thinking about putting in an event bid
>> in a
>> > group I'd just moved to
>> > > the first thing I did was go to a business
>> meeting and
>> > ask the group for advice
>> > > about the site. It saved a ton of time and there
>> was
>> > almost no "what about
>> > > us?!!" comments. It was all useful information
>> not
>> > commonly known about the
>> > > site.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Rebecca
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Message: 7
>> > > Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:51:18 -0700 (PDT)
>> > > From: Debbie Halstead
>> > > Subject: Re: [MR] and now the business stuff
>> starts
>> > > To: Merry Rose
>> > > Message-ID: <442063.74089.qm at web36803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>> >
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> > >
>> > > > Molly: is there some reason that Atlantia
>> cannot
>> > pay a portion of
>> > > >the site fee for a Kingdom level event?
>> > >
>> > > >Corwyn: As I recollect Kingdom CAN "sponsor"
>> or
>> > front a local group hosting
>> > > >the event per policy (been a while since I
>> read
>> > it, but that's how
>> > > >it was when I was KingdomSeneschal).
>> > >
>> > > I remember that being talked about in an Unevent
>> > Senschal's meeting back when
>> > > you were Kingdom Seneschal, but there is no trace
>> of
>> > it that I can find in
>> > > current Financial Policy. (Also, I asked about it
>> not
>> > too long ago before I took
>> > > over as DKEB and got looked at like I was
>> nuts....)
>> > >
>> > > Debora
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > THL Debora Aurifex
>> > > Isenfir MOL & Deputy MOAS
>> > > Royal Baker
>> > > Kingdom Event Bid Coordinator
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
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