[MR] Permanent Crown event site

Tue Apr 14 10:02:38 PDT 2009

I don't believe in ignoring hypothetical situations just because they haven't happened.

I also don't get bogged down in arguments about numbers and percentages.

I had a legal friend who used to say "that's not a concern because there's never been a lawsuit in the history of the USA about that before".  

We should consider all possible concerns and in a society of courtesy work to prevent possible problems.

I do appreciate the listening skills though.  

Rebecca

--- On Tue, 4/14/09, logan <logan at ebonwoulfe.com> wrote:

> From: logan <logan at ebonwoulfe.com>
> Subject: Re: [MR] Permanent Crown event site
> To: atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Date: Tuesday, April 14, 2009, 12:38 AM
> and not ignoring legitimate questions
> asked when one raises concerns is also
> important.  you stated a concern about crazed
> autocrats running roughshod
> over local site owners to which i responded with a question
> you have yet to
> answer.  so, i pose it again in hopes that you will
> educate me about your
> concerns.  so perhaps you will take a moment to help
> me understand.  you
> seem to take exception over people questioning those who
> voice concerns over
> hypothetical questions posed in the fashion of chicken
> little and the sky.
> i can understand that.  however, when a hypothetical
> situation is posted
> without any supporting facts its acceptable for people to
> call it to task
> and demand some level of support or withdrawal.  in
> that vein i have copied
> the question here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> [mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org]
> On Behalf Of logan
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 6:37 PM
> To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: Re: [MR] outside autocrats
> 
> i didnt realize that such a problem existed.  how
> often has this happened
> rebecca?
> 
> logan
> 
> "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and
> they thought it was
> hell." 
> Harry S Truman
> "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so
> severe that his
> vengeance need not be feared"
> Niccolo Machiavelli
> www.ebonwoulfe.com
> www.fighterpractice.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> [mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org]
> On Behalf Of Becky
> McEllistrem
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: [MR] outside autocrats
> 
> 
> I'm not digging my heels in but I do have questions.
> 
> Say an outside autocrat comes into a local group and uses
> the local group's
> site.  The outside autocrat chooses this time to be a
> tyrant (because that
> never happens) and is rude and hateful to the site
> owner.  The site owner
> decides after a weekend of a jerk that they're completely
> fed up with SCA,
> cancel contracts and kicks SCA off site forever.  Now
> the local group has
> lost a site after carefully cultivating a relationship for
> a long time.  Yes
> one incident CAN lose a site.
> 
> How is the local group compensated for the loss of the
> site?  The only way I
> can see to avoid this problem is to have a local group as
> at least a deputy
> autocrat at all times.  That way the local
> relationship is still protected.
> If an outside autocrat fails in a large or medium way, it's
> still the local
> group's mess to clean up late Sunday or Monday anyway.
> 
> Rebecca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> [mailto:atlantia-bounces at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org]
> On Behalf Of Becky
> McEllistrem
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 9:12 PM
> To: atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> Subject: Re: [MR] Permenant Crown event site
> 
> 
> Discussions do much better when we're not mocking each
> other.
> 
> And it's a very serious concern that doesn't go away
> because we deny its
> existence.
> 
> I'm surprised we're so flippant about concerns towards each
> others' sites
> while talking about how difficult it is to find
> sites.  There's something
> hypocritical about that.
> 
> A society of courtesy is not just about courtesy to
> royals.  A society of
> courtesy is also about courtesy to each other.
> 
> Rebecca
> 
> --- On Mon, 4/13/09, Adeliza of Bristol <adeliza at bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Adeliza of Bristol <adeliza at bellsouth.net>
> > Subject: Re: [MR] Permenant Crown event site
> > To: atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> > Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 9:05 PM
> > Were this a discussion about a
> > hypothetical situation or trying to pin down all the
> > Kingdom's events, you may have a point. But it isn't.
> This
> > is specifically a discussion about Crown Tourney being
> tied
> > down to BJ Penn. What may or may not happen with
> other
> > events, groups and sites need not be considered at
> this
> > time. 
> > 
> > The person currently with the best working
> relationship
> > with BJ Penn does not live in the group the site is
> located
> > in. So, requiring the local group to get involved and
> cough
> > up a contact person to effectively replace the
> perfectly
> > excellent contact person in place makes no sense at
> all, and
> > might actually be a bigger danger to loosing the site
> than
> > simply letting things be. Now, if this is going to
> stress
> > the local group, it should have been illustrated last
> > weekend. Black Diamond came down and ran the event.
> Did it
> > cause excessive or unnecessary stress on the local
> group?
> > THAT is what we need to hear.
> > 
> > Making the assuption that the group who lives where
> the
> > site is will always be the best contact is not
> logical.
> > King's Mountain is in Nottinghill Coill, but Sacred
> Stone
> > used the site constantly for years and had an
> incredible
> > working relationship with them (I actually knew one
> Ranger
> > on a first name basis). The inability to get a date on
> their
> > calendar is the only reason it stopped being used so
> often,
> > to my knowledge. Should Nottinghill have been forced
> to come
> > up with a single contact person and everyone made to
> rely on
> > them? Why?
> > 
> > It may cause stress, it may add a level of
> difficulty,
> > frogs may rain down on us from the heavens too. I
> believe
> > this last weekend will best show us how things will be
> and
> > won't be, and what problems need to be addressed
> first. It
> > makes far more sense to look back and see what the
> facts are
> > than try to predict the future and avoid every single
> > possible flaw.
> > 
> > Anyone from either Black Diamond or Windmasters care
> to
> > tell us all what kind of strain it put on them? How
> did it
> > effect things that the primary contact person lives
> in
> > Sacred Stone? What do those specifically involved in
> this
> > event site and its location feel might be problematic.
> This
> > is information I would find more useful than guessing
> at
> > road blocks.
> > 
> > Adeliza
> > 
> > > 
> > > Message: 6 
> > > Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:29:53 -0700 (PDT) 
> > > From: Becky McEllistrem 
> > > Subject: Re: [MR] Permenant Crown event site 
> > > To: atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
> > 
> > > Message-ID: <927256.67668.qm at web31807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > 
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > The welfare of the Kingdom needs to have
> some
> > priority 
> > > > here. Yes, it is important to keep the
> groups and
> > 
> > > > individuals in mind, but throwing the baby
> out
> > with the 
> > > > bathwater makes no sense. 
> > > 
> > > Nobody's saying throw the baby out with the
> bathwater
> > hon. We're saying it is 
> > > just common sense that more stress is going to
> happen
> > to the local group whether 
> > > that's the plan or not and pretending it doesn't
> won't
> > make the issue go away. 
> > > There should be a local contact on staff since it
> does
> > ultimately fall onto the 
> > > locals to clean up anything left after the rest
> of the
> > kingdom has returned 
> > > home. 
> > > 
> > > When I was thinking about putting in an event bid
> in a
> > group I'd just moved to 
> > > the first thing I did was go to a business
> meeting and
> > ask the group for advice 
> > > about the site. It saved a ton of time and there
> was
> > almost no "what about 
> > > us?!!" comments. It was all useful information
> not
> > commonly known about the 
> > > site. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Rebecca 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------ 
> > > 
> > > Message: 7 
> > > Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:51:18 -0700 (PDT) 
> > > From: Debbie Halstead 
> > > Subject: Re: [MR] and now the business stuff
> starts 
> > > To: Merry Rose 
> > > Message-ID: <442063.74089.qm at web36803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > 
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 
> > > 
> > > > Molly: is there some reason that Atlantia
> cannot
> > pay a portion of 
> > > >the site fee for a Kingdom level event? 
> > > 
> > > >Corwyn: As I recollect Kingdom CAN "sponsor"
> or
> > front a local group hosting 
> > > >the event per policy (been a while since I
> read
> > it, but that's how 
> > > >it was when I was KingdomSeneschal). 
> > > 
> > > I remember that being talked about in an Unevent
> > Senschal's meeting back when 
> > > you were Kingdom Seneschal, but there is no trace
> of
> > it that I can find in 
> > > current Financial Policy. (Also, I asked about it
> not
> > too long ago before I took 
> > > over as DKEB and got looked at like I was
> nuts....) 
> > > 
> > > Debora 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > THL Debora Aurifex 
> > > Isenfir MOL & Deputy MOAS 
> > > Royal Baker 
> > > Kingdom Event Bid Coordinator 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------ 
> > > 
> > >
> >
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