[MR] Arts for fighters

Thu Mar 1 07:42:27 PST 2007

and knighthoods were very often purchased in the middle ages as well.  what
we must do is take the best aspects of our culture and our custom built
society and hold those as the norms and expectations of our peerages.
personally i dont know that i would support the notion that a pelican
candidate, for example, be knowledgeable in or of the fighting arts in order
to be considered.    thats not to suggest separation of the sub-cultures
though.  we are a community and to be considered for high praise (peerage) i
think there are a few things any candidate for any peerage should display.

those things are, most importantly, a mastery of what they do.  be it
service, art, fighting they should be masters at it.  perhaps not the best
but masters nonetheless.  secondly they should be knowledgeable of the sca
and understanding of its purpose and its design.  they should also comport
themselves well and display (dress) well.  and, of course, not be a jerk.

with that criteria in mind i think that all the bases are covered and all
the needs of the sca, as a community, are met.  should a knight have to be
able to sing?  heck no.  most of us cant even talk right.  ;^)

regards
logan

http://fighterpractice.com
http://ebonwoulfe.com/
http://atheistdelusion.cf.huffingtonpost.com/

support the removal of stupidity:
http://ebonwoulfe.com/elbow.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: atlantia-bounces at atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:atlantia-bounces at atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Mary Bowles
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 9:58 AM
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [MR] Arts for fighters

Greetings Your Grace,

  I usually lurk on the list when it comes to debates like fighting at KASF
or why a knight should know Arts and Sciences, because I'm not all that well
spoken. My thoughts get muddled and my words sometimes come out wrong.  But
now I feel I must point out a few things that haven't come up in this
discussion. Our Society (SCA) created the Laurel and Pelican as the highest
Order of Merit for the Arts and Services. It did not create the Order of
Chivalry. Knighthood and the training it requires are well documented in
many books, illuminations and songs. Knighthood is different because it
existed before the SCA existed. It's not just an award, its a way of life.
That is not to say the Laurel and the Pelican are not as well, but the
parameters for these Orders are not as well documented as the Order of
Chivalry. Chivalry has  a long history, as well as training manuals and
instruction on how the page, squire and knight were brought up. What it
takes to be a knight is a well
 rounded person, who can speak eloquently on ALL aspects of the medieval
life, because that is what they did in the past. A Knight needed to have a
strong arm in war but also a strong mind outside of war. He needed to be
knowledgeable, diplomatic and have a respected demeanor  when not at war.
That meant they knew how to entertain, knew heraldry, courtly manners, arts
and sciences to a greater or lesser degree AND above all how to fight and
lead troops on the field because they like diplomats and government
officials today were the image of the government of there time. To be
ignorant was to show your Kingdom to be ignorant.

  Another thing I'd like to point out is that there are several Laurel's
that I know who encourage the fighting arts in there apprentices so that
they may understand other aspects of the SCA. They make this a requirement
for promoting them within the Laurel's circle. Weather this is done by all
or just a few is any ones guess. However it is done, and it is encouraged so
that the Laurel will also be as well rounded as our Knights.

  Now I have a few  questions. Why are we in the SCA if we don't encourage
the promotion of the middle-ages in all aspects of our persona's? Why join
the SCA?

  Pax,
  Lady Marie-Therese Normand
  Fighter Chic and Artisan.

Logan <logan at ebonwoulfe.com> wrote:

cool.....ummm not really.

i said nothing about crown. anyone can win crown. please read what i said.

that being the "difference" between knights and whatever. not some guy that
wins crown.

regards
logan

http://fighterpractice.com
http://ebonwoulfe.com/
http://atheistdelusion.cf.huffingtonpost.com/

support the removal of stupidity:
http://ebonwoulfe.com/elbow.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: atlantia-bounces at atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:atlantia-bounces at atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of
mathilde at mathildegirlgenius.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 8:54 PM
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subject: [MR] Arts for fighters

I have a talent for not leaving a dead horse be. :-D

Logan wrote:

> but then again.... ive never heard anyone ask a
> laurel or pelican candidate how good their fighting is. yet, knights are
> expected to be all encompassing....

Sometimes fighters are expected to provide an A&S piece and documentation to
enter crown tourney. Artisans are never asked to show their fighting skill
when
entering a pentathlon. People might wonder if this is fair?

It is fair. When a fighter wins crown tourney, that fighter becomes king or
queen. That king or queen is the ruler, makes laws, holds court, and sets
the
mood and theme for six months. That ruler ultimately decides who gets an
AoA,
who gets a Pearl, who becomes a Knight, Pelican, or Laurel.

The prize for the personal pentathlon last year was (IIRC) a beautiful woven
bag, and a Borders gift certificate. Lovely, but the winner of that tourney
does not then gain a position where they make decisions about the fate of
others in the kingdom.

As long as the people who rule are chosen by deed of arms, and not skill of
needle, many artisans may feel a bit like the red-headed step-child. I'm not
calling for changes, far from it, just a simple understanding of the context
of
some people's point of view.

Respectfully,
Mathilde
Who actually did used to pick up a stick and *try* to beat people with it,
before her back said "please stop!" :-D

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