[MR] the real petitions are now online

[Vels inn Viggladi]

I've only a little to add to this case, but I will offer it for what it may 
be worth. A small pardon, I hope, that I'll be responding to some bit a 
little out of order.


>I agree with you that the rules are pointless, but I have yet to hear a
>legitimate reason why they actully make combat LESS safe.  A hard elbow
>actually reduces you control of your shield?  Please.  Get a better elbow,
>or restrap our shield, or just bloody well learn to cope with it.

With a heater or other strapped shield, in most cases, a full hard elbow is 
redundant. But, this is a geographical variance. I started out about 600 
miles north of Atlantia, not having both elbows armored was unheard-of. I 
don't have a particular stake in this one either way.

>Padding on the aventail increases the possibility of overheating?  Come 
>again?  If
>you really need to cool your body off, ditch the vambraces.  The human body
>sheds more heat through the forearms and the head than anywhere else...1/4
>inch of padding on the inside of an aventail REALLY won't make that big a
>difference.

The point of padding the Aventail seems to be an attempt to provide 
sufficient padding to the lower Cervical vertebrae. If an Aventail is built 
and attached to a helm correctly (as in accordance with the current 
requirements), then this is the only part of the CV that isn't benefitting 
from the physics of an Aventail. An Aventail, though steel, is a 'semi-rigid 
armor' with situational rigid characteristics -- that being when the weight 
of the aventail pulling down counters the force horizontally against the 
surface. Some flex of the mail displaces the force up to the point when 
force is reduced to negligible. The addition of padding *does appear* to be 
for the section of the aventail where mail sits directly on the lower CV. 
But here, the requirement of a gambeson or equivalent covering the torso 
should be padding for the aventail. If no gambeson, then this piece of armor 
doesn't fit the current regulations for protection without some form of 
padding.
If this is all intended to protect the front of the neck, then only an 
aventail too short or incorrectly attached would ever allow a blow to 
intercede so far to the throat to make contact with the body in a 
"dangerous" manner. So the question then becomes is this an attempt to cover 
for already fail-worthy aventails, whether they actually make it to the 
field or not?
If the requirement is taken as "in addition to" any existing regulations 
being properly followed, the redundancy of it is spectacular.
My dog in this race is not so large. We can be "safe" in good armor. Good 
armor does not need to be plastic and high-resilient foam. More-then, let us 
wisely understand and enforce the regulations we have, rather than adding 
more to make up for that lack.

Still, with additional a-porous padding around the neck, the point where a 
body's natural evaporation cooling is moved further still from the point 
where heat leaves the body, and limits further the surface area where heat 
can be distributed into the air. There is also the matter of bloodflow as an 
internal cooling method when under exhertion. Neck enclosing padding may not 
interfere with bloodflow at rest, but is may inhibit some during exhertion. 
This has the added drawback of possibly restricting bloodflow too and from 
the brain. There are many ways to balance cooling and protection. This one 
does not adequately improve protection for the probable cost in other ways.

>Civil disobedience isn't the way to convice an autocratic authority figure
>to renege on a decision; presenting rational, well-reasoned arguements 
>might
>be more effective.

That is still "civil" disobedience, just of a more conversant means. A thing 
oft-forgotten is that when an autocrat, local lord up to Emperor made enough 
or an extreme enough unpopular decision, he was deposed by those whom his 
actions affected, usually violently. Corporations in the modern age do not 
have a mechanism for this short of long and tedious bureaucracy. It may be 
expected, then, that it would be all the more important for those who are 
secure in their office to be more considerate and circumspect of the results 
of their actions and decrees.

>As for resigning, what message does that send to Duke Hrothgar?  "Your
>Grace, since I harbor strong moral objections to your policies, and can't 
>in
>good conscience enforce them, I hereby resign from the marshallate, thereby
>eliminating any chance that you might actually be required to listen to 
>what
>I have to say."  Duke Hrothgar's response:  "Uh, good?  Thank you for
>sparing me the trouble of publicly slapping you down and thereby possibly
>creating a discussion whereby other viewpoints might be heard..."

Good Lord Eadric, I believe the observation is intended to be -
"Your Grace, since I harbor strong moral objections to your policies, and 
can't in good conscience enforce them, I hereby resign from the marshallate. 
I will not forswear my morals, and your instruction places me in a position 
where it is more right to resign than to enforce something to which my heart 
is opposed."

I do not mean to place words in His Grace's mouth, and offer apology if I am 
wrong, but I do think I understand this correctly. Really, we are dancing a 
line between two worlds here, and they do not easily converge.

<now out of the order it was posted>
> >most marshals are under qualified, un-trained, and inexperienced as 
>fighters >to do their jobs well.
>
>Again, become King.  Reform the marshallate.  Most of the marshalls I've
>known have been competent, dedicated, and vastly underappreciated.  As a
>former marshall, I take major exception to your assertion.
>
> >anyway, hope some of this makes sense and i applaud your willingness to
> >enforce rules even if you don't understand them fully.  best of luck with
> >your fighting and marshalling experiences.
> >
> >regards
> >logan

>Eadric the Potter
>getting off my soapbox

Firstly, I've had experience with such marshals as often as I have had 
experience with those who are not marshals. I do think that being a marshal 
requires a particularly high level of familiarity with all regulations. 
Another part of me reminds that we all learn at different rates, when there 
is a conflict of knowing, polite discourse throughout can achieve correct 
agreement. If needed, check the regulations.
But, I do not entirely believe that furthering the training and maintaining 
the training should come from the Royal See. Enterprise, compaignons, 
enterprise. I am reminded of a situation during the Hundred Years War where 
the French army was contained from crossing the River Lis by Flemings at 
Commines. A group of young men at arms came up with a plan to cross the 
river downstream in a number of barges and small boats, then to move up the 
far side of the river and attack allowing the main force to move across at a 
the contested crossing. They gathered landing information, watched guards on 
the southern side of the enemy camp, procured boats and barges, and hired 
boatsmen to ferry them all across. When everything was ready, they explained 
their plan, preparations, and intents to the constable and marshals of 
France. After reviewing their plan and the preparations, the Constable was 
well pleased with the opportunity and granted permission for the enterprise 
to be executed. The lord of Sempy led the crossing he had organized and they 
assaulted Commines the next day. The combined assault at the river and on 
the rear of Commines routed the Flemings. The knights and squires who served 
in this venture were greatly rewarded for thier deeds.

Prepare wisely, obtain permission, and act well. These are what is needed.
There are not enough years for each with good ideas to wait and arrange for 
their six golden months to implement good changes, nor time enough for all 
to politick for high appointment.



Vels

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