[MR] On Titles,

[E L Wimett]

Actually, in the older tradition in both the East Kingdom and the Middle,
the freestanding Grant of Arms was commonly used to acknowledge service in a
kingdom office and was often awarded after six months to one year of
successful service (depending on the Crown and the time period).

The awarding of a court barony with that grant was unusual originally
(though a grant automatically accompanied investiture as a territorial
baron/baroness at least in the East).  

To my knowledge the first one was that bestowed on Stephen of Silverwing
(now Steffan ap Cenydd of Silverwing) in the early 1980's.  (Stephen was
from Carolingia in those days though he now lives in the Barony of the
Bridge, having married its baroness.)  I was there and the Crown
specifically bestowed the court baronacy with the grant (rather than vice
versa) since Stephen was a herald and had said that the only title that he
really envied was that of baron since it was the only one that was really
period as we used it!

I can speak to that since I believe I was the second person upon whom a
court baronacy was bestowed with the grant in the East.  It was done for
much the same reasons (I was a herald and the royalty thought it would be a
spiff heraldic thing) when I received my court baronacy after approximately
a year in the office of Chronicler of the East.

Alisoun
Quondam Brigantia, quondam Clerk of Precedence of the East and of Atlantia
"Herald as Witness to History" as someone emailed me off line last night

-----Original Message-----
From: atlantia-bounces at atlantia.sca.org
[mailto:atlantia-bounces at atlantia.sca.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Spaun
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 8:20 AM
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subject: [MR] Re: On Titles,

Please accept a question and a comment from a person not accustomed to 
Atlantia's laws...

First, the question... are Grants of Arms without any other award (such as a

Court Baronage) common in these parts?  I'm from the East Kingdom and it 
seemed exceptionally rare there.  For that matter, I didn't see the practice

much when I was in the West or Middle either.

Second, the comment...
>
>  A GoA is something to be rightly
>proud of and the recipients should be entitled to a distinguishment of
>address.
>

Some of us are rightly proud of our AoAs, as we're from groups where they 
are hard to achieve.  So if folks want to use a different title for 
independent GoAs (which are also certainly hard to achieve, hands down), 
then I think that's great so they won't be confused with us peons who are 
happy to have our wee AoAs.  Sorry for the air of sarcasm but in my old 
Barony (Carolingia, EK... which I love dearly but getting awards in a Barony

that size was no small feat) no one ever got an AoA unless they'd been in 
for at least 4 years and highly visible (lesting they walked on water) so we

took them to heart and think of them as things that we should be "rightly 
proud" to have as well.     Besides, everyone I know from EK with a GoA is a

Court Baron so the title issue is solved... though that probably gets into 
the question of "Shouldn't landless Barons have different titles than Landed

Barons?" which is another can of worms altogether...

Thank you in advance for answers to the question at the top of this,
~Bianca di Bari, AoA


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